Minutes 10-14-03 I~IINUTES OF THE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING SESSTON BETWEEN
THE NATTONAL CONFERENCE OF FTREIqEN & OILERS, WHTTE COLLAR
WORKERS, AND THE CITY OF BOYNTON BEACH, HELD ON TUESDAY,
OCTOBER 14, 2003 AT 2:30 P. f4. IN CONFERENCE ROOIq B, CTTY HALL,
BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA
Present
For NCF&O
Sharon Munley, President, Local 1227
Debbie Lytle, Chief Steward, Utilities
Michael Ricard, Steward, Building Division
For the City:
Wilfred Hawkins, Assistant City Manager
Arthur Lee, Director of Human Resources
Mr. Hawkins opened the meeting at 2:42 P.M. A sign-in sheet was circulated.
Working Out of Class/Pay for Training Discussion
Ms. Munley stated that working out of class was when a person did something that
should be done by someone who gets paid more than that person. Ms. Munley thought
this would be rare in the white-collar unit and Ms. Lytle stated that it was - that people
did not take more than 20-day vacations. (The current contract contains a clause
stating that when an employee works in a higher classification for 20 continuous
workdays, they shall receive a 5% increase in pay.)
Ms. Munley referred next to the training portion of this. Ms. Lytle stated that everyone
has to cross train as part of a person's job description, except for training in a higher
class. Ms. Munley stated it was for when you were performing work at a higher class for
training and she assumed that was when a person was being promoted. She thought
that a person would already get higher pay when they were promoted. Mr. Ricard said
they sometimes put people in higher classes to fill in. Depending on the department, a
person might do this for more than 20 days. Ms. Lytle stated that this was because
employees did not want to make waves. Ns. I~lun/ey suggested making the training
part 10 days and not 20 days.
Mr. Hawkins said there were two different applications. Ms. Munley stated that there
was working out of class and working out of class to be trained. Mr. Hawkins said that
the training had to do with training other people as a training officer. Mr. Lee said that
Pay for Training was a separate article.
Mr. Ricard stated that in his experience, it was not for training but for coverage. Mr.
Hawkins said that in some cases it could be for that too.
Meeting Minutes
White Collar Bargaining Session
Boynton Beach, Florida
October 14, 2003
The parties discussed what examples of working out of class for training would be like.
Emergency Dispatch training would be one example. Mr. Ricard stated that if a Building
:Inspector were to work on plan reviews, he would be working outside of the scope of
his job. Mr. Lee said that was true, but that would not necessarily involve working in a
higher class. Ms. IVlunley said she thought it meant when you were working in a higher
class. She also said that in Emergency Dispatch, there were training officers and she
thought they got the 5%, and Mr. Hawkins agreed.
IVls. Munley asked who else would be considered a training officer. She was not
speaking of training like incidental training. IVlr. Ricard said that in his area the
supervisors do the training and do not get any extra pay. He thought it was up to 90
days. Ms. Lytle said that Police Records Clerks were given training also. People have to
go out and get training on machines.
Mr. Hawkins said that when certain information is obtained from the computer system,
the State requires that they be certified and nobody else can work with that
information. You could not cross train someone because it was illegal. IVlr. Lee said that
there was a Police Records Supervisor and IVlr. Hawkins said they had always had this.
IVls. Collins commented that the Police Records Clerks had about six weeks of intensive
training and that at one time it was an issue because one of the senior clerks was doing
the training exclusively, and not receiving any money for it. IVls. IVlunley asked if the
training person was the supervisor (in the Police Records area), or someone acting as
the supervisor and in the white-collar unit. Then the 5% rule would apply. Ms. Collins
responded that the training person in that case was not the supervisor. Mr. Hawkins
stated they needed to answer that question.
Mr. Ricard said that in his department it took a certain amount of time to do the
training. :It was training about how to do the paperwork in the department, use the
computer for their application, and not certification, l~t was about principles and
practices in the City. They were not collecting money for it and he felt this article was
not specific enough. IVlr. Ricard said that they had to state what training was. He said
that usually it was a 90-day period. He also stated that the training person was usually
the supervisor. IVls. Munley asked if this person was in the white collar bargaining unit
and Mr. Ricard replied that they were. IVls. Munley verified that the individuals of whom
IVlr. Richard spoke were in fact in the bargaining unit. IVlr. Ricard explained what
happens in his department in regard to training. The question was raised, "~[f that
person has a certification as an inspector, wouldn't he know the things that had to be
known?" Mr. Ricard stated that the certification covered the Code and the law, but
there were principles and actual practices in the City that had to be conveyed. Ms.
Munley stated that it sounded more like intense training as in the Police
Communications area. You know how to do the basics, but you have to learn the City's
terms and procedures.
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Mr. Hawkins stated that when an officer comes out of the academy, he is put into
training before he can go out on the street.
Ms. Munley said that it was important to differentiate between things like, "Where the
copy machine is and here are the billing forms, etc." Mr. Hawkins agreed, saying that to
him, this was incidental. ]~t had to be looked at on a job basis, on a function-by-function
basis. He did not think this could be "painted with a broad brush." Mr. Ricard said it was
job specific and Mr. Hawkins agreed. Mr. Hawkins felt that there were jobs that applied
to people who were mandated by law to meet certain local, state, and Federal laws, to
meet certain standards, but that this would be difficult to apply to administrative and
clerical functions, in all cases.
Ms. Munley stated they had to figure out a way to say it. Mr. Hawkins thought they first
needed to analyze to whom it would apply. Ms. Munley did not want to say, this and
that classification because they would miss one. They had to more clearly define what
is incidental and what is not. They did not want to eliminate the tasks that were
performed by all clerical people to say that it would exclude any clerical training that
might happen because there might be someone who trains all clerical people. Tt needs
to be more defined. She did not know if they could come up with language that would
eliminate grievances. She said that Mr. Ricard should have probably had a grievance in
his department because the actions he described were more than incidental. Mr. Ricard
said if it were for newly promoted employees, to positions where training was required
to meet local, state, and federal requirements, those people would get training, for a
period of time or to be left open.
Mr. Hawkins said that even in Dispatch, there is a certain period of time during which a
person has to know the job. Ms. Lytle said that would be during probation, and Mr.
Hawkins agreed. Mr. Hawkins said that in Dispatch, there were milestones in that year
that a person had to meet. He did not know if it were that specific in Mr. Ricard's
shop. Mr. Ricard said that in 90 days you should know the system in his shop.
Ms. Munley asked Mr. Ricard to repeat what he had said about newly promoted
employees. Mr. Ricard said, "newly promoted employees who are mandated by law to
meet local, state and federal laws pertaining to standards."
Mr. Lee said that stepping up was more difficult in the white-collar unit and clearer with
the Police. Ms. Lytle stated that every time the Fire Department hires a fire inspector,
someone has to ride along with them for a month or two and she did not believe they
received any adjustments in pay. Ms. Munley said that their world would be mandated
by whatever laws happened to apply to their job and Hr. Hawkins agreed. Ms. Munley
said that the Police Emergency Dispatch was the same thing, and the Building
Tnspectors, the Laboratory people, Code Enforcement, and so forth.
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Ms. Munley suggesting saying, "Employees who are assigned/n writing to train a new
or promoted employee when such training/s mandated by federal, state, or local laws,
shall receive 5% and so forth." Mr. Hawkins said that was a good start but they would
have to take it back and look at it. Hr. Ricard said it could be more polished but that
was the gist of it. Ms. Lytle thought it was too. Mr. Ricard said that even though their
clerical people were not getting certified, just learning how to use the computer takes
longer than a month.
In the City's article, Pay for Training - Ms. Munley said that after the word employee in
the first sentence on this page, they could say, "whose training/s mandated by federal,
state, or local leg/slat/on." I~lr. Hawk/ns said they could say, local /egis/at/on or
ordinances. Ms. Munley asked that in the Working out of Class article where it called
for 20 days, whether that could be used for other situations where people train
somebody for a really long time. Mr. Ricard said that for example, Sam Dillingham had
to do double duty as an inspector and plan reviewer. When he asked for the 5%, he
did not receive it. Ms. Munley said there should be something for the rest of the white-
collar world, who might be in a more relaxed area but where they are assigned to train
someone.
Mr. Hawkins stated that if somebody goes on vacation, we want to be able to say that
this person can cover that for a short period of time, in a smaller department with cross
training. He agreed that if the position were vacant and not filled, a person should be
compensated over a long period of time. I~lr. R/card felt that the second part of Working
out of C/ass was covered in Pay for Training.
Mr. Hawkins stated that the first part of Working out of Class was meant to cover when
someone was stepping up to a job with a higher classification, and the second section
was meant to cover performing work in a higher classification for training purposes./~/r.
Hawkins thought that sect/on 2 should probably go with Pay for Training and further
discussion would have to take p/ace on how it would be applied.
Ms. Lytle stated that she understood that some people got paid for working out of class
from the day it started and not 20 days later, selectively, wherever they want to do it.
She referred to an individual in Procurement who, she believed, got working out of
class pay from the beginning. Mr. Hawkins stated that this had been taken care of. Ms.
Lytle stated there was favoritism.
Mr. Hawkins spoke about working out of class and cited a temporary supervisor as an
example of this kind of stepping up, or filling in for someone else in a higher grade.
Ms. Lytle stated that she filled in for Ms. Conboy for two weeks but not for her entire
job, just for a certain task. She was told that although she had taken on some of her
daily tasks, she had not taken on her whole job. They would not pay you the out of
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October 14, 2003
class because it was not her whole job. Perhaps they divided it between three people.
They kind of "get over" on the employees doing stuff like that.
Mr. Lee felt that section 2 would have to be reworded. IVls. IVlunley said this was done
in the white-collar world all over. They give you one piece of a person's job and you
are not doing the whole job. NIs. Lytle said she had never gotten it in the 14 years she
had been here and no matter how much it was discussed, it was not going to happen.
F4r. Lee remarked about a situation where Ms. Lytle and others had to step up when the
Administrative Secretary was not there. IVls. Lytle agreed, but said that she always
worked below her classification. She was never given her classificatiOn. She was doing
administrative clerical grunt work. That was the whole problem with that classification.
She was given the title but none of the job. Mr. Lee agreed. So, no (Ms. Lytle
speaking), we did not have to step up at all.
Ms. Munley proposed changing Section 2 to be, "When you are required/n writing to do
the incidental training for at least 20 days..."This would bring in the Police Records
Clerks who have a whole lot of information to learn that is not covered by legislation
and takes a long time to cover. She said certain spec/tic jobs like this might have a
whole lot of information to be conveyed, over and above the c/er/ca/skills a person
might need to work/n an office. _~t might take a lot longer than 20 days to teach
someone these things. She thought that Working out of Class would be alone on the
page, moving Section 2 to Pay for Training.
IVlr. Hawkins said language could be expanded to talk about further incidental training,
but he wondered whether there were departments where they ask people to step up
and perform supervisory functions to prepare that person to be promoted. Ms. Lytle did
not believe so. Then Mr. Hawkins did not know where this all came about. Ms. Munley
said it was not in the current contract, but had come out of the blue collar contract.
IYr. Hawk/ns stated that Sect/on 1. would be /eft under Working out of C/ass and
Sect/on 2 would be moved to Pay for Training and cover incidental training. Ns. Mun/ey
said the first one would be for training that was mandated by/egis/at/on or ordinance,
and the second would be for incidental such as the Po/ice Records people.
Ms. Munley asked if the City really needed 20 days in Working Out of Class. Ms. Munley
said that usually, it was to cover vacations, and they were usually 10 days. She thought
that changing it to 10 days would be a good thing. Mr. Hawkins and Mr. Lee will talk
about this and how it is applied.
Mr. R/card said that the phrase "20 continuous days" had caught them. They would
train for 3 days and then stop and start again the following week, and this goes on for
six months. Ms. Munley said this was the problem. In Palm Beach Gardens there were
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October 14, 2003
no restrictions on times. Their language has always been that it was incumbent upon
the supervisor not to go crazy by doing it 2 hours today and 2 hours tomorrow.
Assigning someone for a whole day or whole shift or whole week works. The problem
comes in when you put restrictions on the length of time because manipulation can
come into it. In Palm Beach Gardens, you assign it in writing and it starts immediately.
Mr. Lee asked if this was at the discretion of the supervisor and Ms. Munley replied that
it had to be assigned in writing. Ms. Lytle suggested taking out 20 days. Ms. Munley
thought it should be from the beginning.
Mr. Ricard said if someone is out, we fill in and that is not changing but sometimes it
goes on for a month or two. It should be put in writing and the pay should start on the
day the paperwork is signed. If it is put in writing, you know that it will be longer than
a couple of days. Ms. Lytle stated that working out of class for a day was not incidental.
]fa person is out for the day, you step up and do his or her job. Mr. Ricard said you
cover for your co-workers if they are out sick or at a conference or something. But
when a job is vacant and open or if someone is very sick and you do not know when he
or she will return, this would come into the picture. Working out of class in this
instance would not be fair. Mr. Lee stated that his concern was that this be applied
fairly across the board.
Ms. Munley said that by putting it in writing it was a safety net because everybody
would know what to expect and be on the same page. She thought having it in writing
it would lessen abuses. She knew that the City felt there were abuses in working out of
class situations.
Ms. Munley did not feel that this was normally an issue for white-collar people. She
asked how they would abuse thati Mr. Hawkins said they were working in smaller
groups and the impact is felt morei
Mr. Ricard stated that if working out of class goes to H.R. for signature, he or she
would know whether they were working out of class or not. Ms. Munley said it was not
out of class, it was in a higher class and that was the thing they had to make sure that
everyone had to know. Mr. Ricard said that H.R. would know if it were a higher
classification if they had to sign off on it. iris. IYun/ey said that they might want to ca//
this "step-up pay" to help people. In other contracts, this is referred to as "step-up
pay."Tt is a job that requires more than the employee's current job. Mr. Lee said we
really need to define what we are doing in here because people are confused.
Ms. Lytle asked what would happen if a lot of people left and you were left with doing
double duty work. Say there were five clerical people, who are all at the same pay
grade in her area and we lose some people and there are two people doing four
people's jobs until the positions are filled - this is not a higher class but people are
doing double duty work a lot of times. Mr. Lee said that in that same vein, two grade 16
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White Collar Bargaining Session
Boynton Beach, Florida
October 14, 2003
people could be sharing the work of a grade 17. Ms. Munley felt this would mean they
were both stepping up.
Mr. Hawkins said that from the City's perspective and with all due respect, this was
more toward the professional and technical fields. When you are looking at some
administrative and clerical work, most places were trying to make those people cross
train and get away from different classifications of clerical, particularly in the computer
world these days. The City was getting to the point where they say, "If you don't know
how to operate a computer, we do not want to talk to you." There are certain things in
Word for example, that a person has to bring with them to the table and they did not
want to have people in the office having different skill levels. Eventually, they want to
have everyone at the same skill level. They wanted to get away from people just
answering the telephone and filing. He did not want to tie the City's hands in the
contract by not allowing the efficiencies that can be achieved by having less clerical job
descriptions.
Ms. Lytle said that the white collar unit consisted of clerical people, Code people, Fire
people, and Building people, for example, all with different certifications and they all
have to step up.
Mr. Hawkins did not want to tie the City's hands when it came to the clerical
administrative area trying to achieve a skill level that is going to be required. If they
are competitive, they have to know this stuff.
Mr. Lee asked if a person stepped up for one day, and it was in writing, would they still
get the pay? Ms. Lytle said that they would. Mr. Ricard saw that as being a situation
where a person would help out for one day. He saw it as something that you would be
doing every day for a long period of time. Mr. Hawkins agreed and thought this should
be established up front, even if it was sporadic or periodic. Ms. Lytle said, "it is being
added to your duties for 3 or 4 months."
Mr. Lee said that justifying the paperwork for someone stepping up for one day might
be difficult. Ms. Munley was surprised that Mr. Bressner had to sign off on things like
this. :In Palm Beach Gardens they just use their overtime slips and send them to Payroll.
:If it is so formal that it has to go before the City Manager, a manager would be less
likely to do it. Mr. Ricard said that if his manager took the paperwork to Mr. Bressner
and IVlr. Bressner did not sign off on it, he would not be required to do the work. Ms.
Munley stated that if he or she were forced to do the work anyway, there would be an
issue.
Ms. Munley expressed again that it was important not to restrict the amount of time.
You would not want to assign someone to work out of class for a matter of hours, but if
you said "/n excess of one sh/ft," that would end the thing about the 20 days and doing
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Boynton Beach, Florida
October 14, 2003
it for a day and waiting and starting it up again and so forth. It would get over that
hump.
Mr. Hawkins said that he and Mr. Lee had to talk about some internal, procedural things
before this article could be finished. They did not want to structure the contract in such
a way that it would contradict what was happening procedurally. They had to work on
the "up the chain" procedure.
Ns. Nunley stated that if they could decide on the length of time one had to work out
of class before getting the 5%, they would be "there" on this art/de - she suggested
"beyond one shift. "Sect/on 2 on Work out of C/ass would go to Pay for Training, and
would be reworded so/t talks about the/'nc/dental training piece for 20 days or more,
and they would be "there" on both articles.
Mr. Hawkins mentioned that one of the things they wanted to do when both contracts
were done was to have a training session for supervisors on union contracts. He
planned to go himself. He felt this was necessary to do, especially when talking about
new contracts. They planned to do that. Ms. Munley asked if he were talking about
Assistant City Directors as well, and Mr. Hawkins stated that it would apply to everyone,
including himself. Ms. Munley asked if she could attend and if possible speak. She
wanted to give the Union's viewpoint. Mr. Hawkins agreed, saying that the supervisors
needed to understand the Union's intentions. They also needed to know that there were
consequences.
Mr. Hawkins stated that he knew where the Union was coming from. Ms. Munley stated
that the Union had its labor to sell and that this was the way people paid for their
mortgages and sent their children to school. They wanted the interaction between
labor and business to be fair. Hr. Hawkins stated that the organization's values said
that was what they needed to work towards. That was their stewardship. That was
their integrity. Ms. Munley stated that she realized that the City sometimes came from a
place where they believed that something bad had happened and they wanted to make
it so that it did not happen again. If they continued this kind of interactions where they
explained where they were coming from, maybe we can get to a place where we can
settle our issues. Mr. Hawkins agreed. To him, it was called being reasonable and not
sitting at extremes. If you feel you are being treated fairly, you will have a better
opportunity of being reasonable as a person.
Mr. Hawkins said that the Union needed to do some homework on the PPM and the City
had to do some homework on language clarification: unauthorized absence from work,
and comp time.
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Meeting Minutes
White Collar Bargaining Session
Boynton Beach, Florida
October 14, 2003
Ms. Munley asked the stewards to highlight the differences between the PPM and the
Union discipline and grievance procedures, because she already knew that there were
some things in the PPM language that were not acceptable.
Mr. Hawkins stated that they had given the Union the most current PPM that was
approved by the City Commission and wanted the Union to go through it and pay
attention to it. The progressive part was already in the current contract and they did
not want to do away with that. They wanted to talk about anything that conflicts or
needs to be changed. The minutes are good as to where they left those issues, but
both sides need to do some homework.
Future Meetings
Ms. Munley expressed the need to get a contract. Mr. Hawkins said it was the City's
goal to finish the white-collar contract before Thanksgiving, although the blue collar
was another story. Ms. Munley said the blue-collar contract was progressing.
The next white-collar meeting will be on October 30th from 9:30 a.m. to 11:30 a.m. The
blue-collar meeting will be held on October 30th from 1:30 p.m. to 4:00 p.m. (Note:
According to the City Clerk's records, there will also be a blue collar meeting on October 21 from 9:30 -
11:30 a.m.)
Pay Range Classification Changes
Mr. Lee gave Ms. Munley some information she had requested about the Union
employees to whom the City had given raises, without Union ratification. Ms. Munley
asked about Grace Wilson, who got a 2% check but who is out of the Union (since her
job classification was changed by the City.)
Mr. Hawkins asked the Recording Secretary to continue putting italics on the minutes in
areas on which the parties were close to agreement. The meeting was concluded at
4:00 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Susan Collins
Recording Secretary
(101703)