Minutes 10-30-03 MTNUTES OF THE COLLECTZVE BARGAZN~NG SESS:[ON BETWEEN
THE NAT1~ONAL CONFERENCE OF F~REMEN & OZLERS, WH:[TE COLLAR
WORKERS, AND THE C~TY OF BOYNTON BEACH, HELD ON THURSDAY,
OCTOBER 30, 2003 AT 9:30 A.M. ~N CONFERENCE ROOM B,
C~TY HALL, BOYNTON BEACH, FLORI~DA
Present
For NCF&O
Sharon Munley, President, Local 1227
Debbie Lytle, Chief Steward, Utilities
Michael Ricard, Steward, Building Division
For the City:
Wilfred Hawkins, Assistant City Manager
Arthur Lee, Director of Human Resources
Mr. Hawkins opened the meeting at 9:40 a.m. and a sign-up sheet was circulated.
Approval of Minutes of October 14, 2003 Meeting
Later in the meeting, both parties agreed that the minutes were satisfactory.
Grievance/Discipline/PPM Discussion
Ms. Munley stated that in reference to the PPM, the Union could not give up its right to
arbitrate cases. They want to have their grievance and arbitration article where they
can arbitrate cases. Also, the PPM says that the Human Resource Manager's decision is
final and the Union cannot go there. When someone gets a discipline notice in his or
her file, the Union wants to be able to take action. Without that ability, the file can be
padded with all those written disciplinary notices to the point that when a suspension
comes up, the arbitrator believes the City and therefore, the Union has not been able to
challenge it.
Mr. Hawkins stated that page 37 in the PPM talked about arbitration in the context of
suspension without pay for 5 days or greater. Mr. Hawkins asked Ms. Munley if the
Union wanted to be able to apply arbitration on all suspensions and below, to include
written discipline, and Mrs. Munley confirmed that this was the case. When Mr. Hawkins
asked why they would want to do that on a written reprimand, Ms. Munley responded
that the reprimand might be grievously unfair to someone.
Ms. Munley stated that they also could not agree with the arbitrator not being able to
modify the discipline. At a minimum, the Union has to have what it has now. Mr.
Hawkins stated that the arbitrator could either sustain or reverse the discipline. Ms.
Munley felt this was unfair and said, "What if you give somebody ten days off for some
dumb little thing? Because, you guys are not always going to sit in this chair. Now we
Meeting Minutes
NCF&O Negotiation Session - White Collar
Boynton Beach, Florida
October 30, 2003
can't have the arbitrator change the penalty when the penalty does not fit the crime?
We cannot go there. The whole point of arbitration is to make sure that what happened
was fair and just for the crime, if a crime was even committed."
Ms. Lytle said that although the arbitrator could reverse the disciplinary outcome, the
arbitrator might also decide that it would be more appropriate to apply 3 days instead
of l0 days. Ms. Munley agreed. Ms. Lytle said the arbitrator has to be able to modify it
because it is not always black and white.
Mr. Hawkins was willing to be flexible with the language outlining under what
circumstances arbitration would apply. The City was not disagreeing with the idea of
having arbitration in the contract. He thought that the parties needed to decide upon
which circumstances would call for arbitration. He was having a hard time
understanding why the Union would arbitrate written reprimands when written
reprimands were removed from the file after three years. Mr. Lee said they were not
removed from the file, but they were not counted after three years. Mr. Hawkins said
they could even work on the three years aspect. To Mr. Hawkins, arbitrating written
reprimands is overkill. He stated that he wou/d give the Union arbitration for
suspensions.
Ms. Lytle stated that she did not know why so much time had to be spent on this. They
had never gone to arbitration for white or blue collar, to their knowledge. Ms. Munley
stated that the cases that were lined up to go to arbitration were not about written
reprimands. Ms. Lytle said they would not frivolously spend their time, money, or effort
on stuff like that, but had to have the opportunity to do it should the case arise.
Ms. Munley said that the Union Hall was running a business and had to spend its money
wisely because arbitrations are expensive. Usually, when the Union arbitrates cases,
they are about people who did not get paid correctly, were terminated, or where there
were serious wrongs done to people. She did not think that there were any current
cases that were about written reprimands but, there cold be and the Union had to have
a safety net in the event they need to fix something. Ms. LyUe indicated that if the
employee were to get reprimands that were justified, the Union would not arbitrate, but
would counsel the employee or take some other action.
Ms. Munley said they were trying to be logical and find a solution. Mr. Lee stated, "This
is why we are trying to put a structure in place that is logical because you might not
always be there." Ms. Munley said that when an arbitration goes into the Union's
house, it goes in front of a committee and they determine whether to arbitrate or not.
Ms. Munley is not on that committee. The Union has a certain amount of money for
arbitrations and has to decide which cases will be arbitrated and which ones will not.
Ms. Munley said that the Union needed the ability to arbitrate at all levels. She also
said that negotiations and saving people from injustice were their two main things.
Meeting Minutes
NCF&O Negotiation Session - White Collar
Boynton Beach, Florida
October 30, 2003
Mr. Lee stated that they must draw the line somewhere and if they include written
reprimands, then they would probably have to include written counseling and written
verbal memos also. Ms. Munley stated they already had the ability to place a refutation
in the personnel file on receiving a verbal or written warning. They would like to put
"counseling memo" in this section also because it is not in there. Where does it fall? It
is not stated. Except for the fact that Ms. Munley wants to use Federal Mediation
instead of the arbitrator proposed by the City, the Union has a perfectly fine article on
this right now. It only needs two tweaks. The Union needs Federal Mediation instead of
Mediation, Inc. and class action has to be defined. She said they needed to say where
terminations go because that was a preoblem they had. She said that there were only a
few tweaks needed to the machinery they already had and that there was already a
prohibition on arbitrating verbal and written warnings.
Mr. Hawkins stated that the old contract refers to the PPM for Progressive Discipline.
During the negotiations, the City gave the Union the currently-approved, updated PPM.
Ms. Munley said that the old PPM was already in the contract and that the problem with
the new PPM is that it goes too far. It goes into appeal and arbitration and that is the
part they could not do. She needed to caucus to see what the Union could use from the
first part of the updated PPM.
Mr. Hawkins stated that there were very minor changes between the old PPM and the
updated PPM. The Union has a concern about arbitration and how to apply that and the
part where the arbitrator cannot modify discipline. Mr. Hawkins agreed, as far as the
contract was concerned, that he would be wi/ling to a/Iow the arbitrator to modify
disc/pi/ne. As far as what can be arbitrated, if the City a/lowed arbitration for written
reprimands, he did not want verbal and counseling items induded in arbitration. Ms.
Munley stated that verbal and counseling were not in the contract now.
Mr. Hawkins asked whether the Union would want to arbitrate a first-time written
reprimand of an employee who had never been in trouble. Ms. Munley stated that every
case had its own merits and the Union would have to investigate the matter. Whether it
was the first instance of discipline or not did not enter into it. The Union is concerned
with whether the penalty fit the crime and if it did, whether there were mitigating
circumstances. Ms. Lytle stated that different departments and areas in the City handled
things differently.
Ms. Munley asked where the PPM discipline language would be cut off because the City
wants progressive discipline, which they already have, and a grievance article, which is
a different article now. So, Ms. Munley wanted to keep the grievance article the Union
already had with a few changes. The old contract already has PPM except for the
grievance piece. Ms. Lytle said that the City amended the PPM and would continue to
Meeting Minutes
NCF&O Negotiation Session - White Collar
Boynton Beach, Florida
October 30, 2003
amend it and massage the language. She did not want to refer to the PPM in the Union
contract at all because it was subject to change, and Ms. Munley agreed.
Ns. Munley stated they needed the Union's discipline art/c/e, Art/cie IX, and they could
possibly rev/se it to make it look more like the PPN article the City had given them.
They did not want to have the grievance and arbitration piece in the discipline art/de.
They wanted it in a different article and they wanted it to look like the Union's article.
Also, Ms. Munley thought it would work better if the grievance/arbitration process were
to be expedited. She said that it was not right to make someone wait a year for
arbitration when it could be done quicker, cheaper, and smarter. However, there were
certain things in the "machinery" that the Union did not want to give up because if they
did, they could not defend people properly.
Ms. Lytle said it was kind of scary that they had never had a case that went to
arbitration and were now working so hard on the language to fix it or modify it. It
appeared to her that perhaps the City was going to do more discipline. Mr. Ricard
indicated that the City was possibly adopting a "harder line." Ms. Lytle said that for
example, they haven't had predetermination hearings before and now all of a sudden
there were all kinds of them. Mr. Lee said they had predetermination hearings before.
Ms. Munley stated they had not been back-to-back for days on end like they are now.
Mr. R/card said that if the City were going to take a harder line, the Union would need
to defend their people when needed. Mr. Hawkins stated that it could also be that
people were doing more things now to merit discipline.
A lengthy discussion ensued about the grievance and discipline procedures. The C/ty
wants the grievance procedure to be included in the disc/p#ne procedure so that a
manager or an employee reading it would be able to see the entire procedure in one
p/ace, from start to finish. The City would a/so like a separate grievance art/de for non-
discipline matters, even though the language might be the same. Mr. Hawkins
explained that the City wanted to distinguish between discipline up to and including
termination and arbitration and grievances for other, non-discipline things. Mr. Hawkins
did not want to confuse the discipline process with anything else in the contract. When
asked to clarify this by Ms. Munley, Mr. Hawkins explained that there had been a
problem in the way grievances were written up. Ms. Munley thought that was a whole
separate issue. Ms. Lytle thought it would be redundant.
Mr. Hawkins thought it may be redundant but there would be a clear-cut delineation
between discipline and everything else in the contract. That was all he was trying to
accomplish. The processes between those two might be very much alike. Ms. Munley
did not know that this would fix how a grievance was written because there was
already language on grievances. She had seen some grievances that were not very
clear and did not provide enough information. Mr. Hawkins said that he was trying to
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Meeting Minutes
NCF&O Negotiation Session - White Collar
Boynton Beach, Florida
October 30, 2003
distinguish between discipline matters and other contract matters that might generate a
grievance.
Mr. Ricard understood where Mr. Hawkins was coming from, saying that if a person
were to pick up the contract booklet and knew they had a disciplinary problem, all the
rules and everything that had to be done could be found in that one place. I~,ls. Nun~ell
sa/d, "Except that/t sa/d on page 20 that regu/ar emp/oyees sba~~ have just cause
appea/ and gr/evance r/ghts as out#ned/n art/de X. "She thought the person would just
keep on reading. Ms. Munley asked Mr. Hawkins to tell her what problem he was trying
to fix with this. Ms. Munley thought that doing what the City wanted would create too
many things to follow and that it would become a nightmare.
Mr. Hawkins stated that he did not equate this with a problem. He was just trying to
make it clear that the disciplinary process had to do with specific rules and outcomes
and that the discipline process should not be confused with anything else in the Union
contract.
When asked by Ms. Lytle why the City would want to say the same thing twice
(grievance), Mr. Hawkins responded, "Because a person could go directly to that
process and follow that process through from being written up to what the next step is,
all the way to arbitration if it goes that far. It is all in one article that can be followed
through from beginning to end."
Ms. Lytle suggested identifying grievances as disciplinary or other, and following the
same grievance procedure for both. Mr. Hawkins said they had articles that specifically
outlined the procedures for a disciplinary matter and that the Union already had that.
Ms. Lytle asked how the City wanted the grievance procedure changed for grievances
other than discipline. Mr. Hawkins felt that the Progressive Discipline article should
contain everything that talks about discipline, and that article l0 should deal with
grievances for everything e/se in the contract. Ms. Munley felt she was beginning to
understand this -- that it was for clarification and streamlining and for the reader to be
able to read all about it on one page. Mr. Hawkins agreed.
Mr. Lee said there were several grievances or disciplinary processes where there was
difficulty determining where the discipline appeal took over and the grievance process
left off, particularly with the pre-determination step. :In one of the processes it says
one thing about pre-determination and what it is for and then you go through the
grievance procedure, which really doesn't say anything about pre-determination, and
you get to the end and ask the question: Do we have a pre-determination for this
particular situation? Then you refer back to the discipline process. Mr. Lee was caught
between the grievance and the disciplinary processes. He saw the disciplinary process
as some type of penalty, whether written or not, that has been applied and can be
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Meeting Minutes
NCF&O Negotiation Session - White Collar
Boynton Beach, Florida
October 30, 2003
appealed. The City was getting grievances for things like "blue shoes" that were related
to safety but the supervisor would not listen to them. So, the Union puts it into the
form of a grievance so everyone can sit down and talk about it. It was not really
discipline at that point but a legitimate grievance.
IYr. Hawk/ns suggested putt/ng everyth/ng related to d/sc/p//ne /n the Progress/ye
D/sc/p//ne art/de. All other gr/evances for any other art/c/es/n the contract would come
under Art/c/e 10. Mr. Lee gave an example of a pre-determination where the City had
said it would be taken to arbitration later. He gave it to the City Attorney, who said that
Mr. Lee would have to go through the grievance procedure first in order to get there.
We are saying that this is duplicating the process. Why go through this when we have
already gotten to this point?
Ms. Munley stated she realized that and that even if the Union accepted the City's
suggestion (see previous paragraph in italics), the grievance process should be
streamlined. MFi Hawkins said the City had agreed to that up front. He was not
changing anything but he asked the Union to look at Section 4.
Ms. Munley said that after the initial action for issues that were violations of the
contract and NOT discipline, there would be a process, and it should be identical to the
other process. If the two grievance procedures were not identical, a nightmare would
be created. Mr. Hawkins did not believe the language in the two processes was that
different.
Ms. Munley suggested that there was another way to fix this issue. The discipline
article the Union already has directs the reader to Article 10. :If there were another
article that said, "Violations of the Contract Other than Disciplinary Matters," it could
also direct the reader to Article 10. Mr. Hawkins was trying to avoid going back and
forth like that.
Mr. Hawkins expressed the view that discipline was the one thing that really affected
people, even if they were exonerated. He did not want this mixed up with such things
as whether a person got paid overtime for something or whether his manager would
not give him the blue shoes he needed for safety. Mr. Hawkins wanted to make the
discipline a standalone article that includes everything related to discipline so that a
person can follow it from the beginning to the end.
Ms. Munley wanted to talk to the stewards about it. She did not believe it was "broken."
She understood that the City was trying to streamline the procedure and she did not
have a major problem with it. She wondered, though, whether it would have a negative
impact on something the Union needed to do. She had to think about it.
Meeting Minutes
NCF&O Negotiation Session - White Collar
Boynton Beach, Florida
October 30, 2003
Ns. Lyt/e suggested that Hr. Hawkins rewrite it the way he wanted it and see if the
Union could agree with it.
Mr. Hawkins stated that he wanted to see Section 4 in Article ::[0 under Progressive
Discipline.
Mr. Hawkins suggested working on Unauthorized Absence from Work and Training,
including the step-up issue.
3ob Posting and Bidding Process
Mr. Lee stated that the City proposed taking this article out and allowing it to be a
management right. Ms. Munley stated she would have to think about that one a long
time.
Ms. Munley stated that there needed to be one job posting and bidding process instead
of the three that exist now: Blue Collar, White Collar, and the PPM. Ms. Munley thought
that they needed to come up with a fair way to post jobs that everybody could agree
on. Ns. Munley stated that in the Union world, there should be a process outlining what
needs to be done about job posting. Ms. Munley asked what happened to the old way
of doing it. Mr. Lee said it had come out of Civil Service and there was a lot of
discriminatory things that happened under it. When they tried to recruit or diversity the
workforce, it was like you had to be here a certain number of years before you could do
anything. Nobody could get promoted, and that was one of the reasons the City wanted
to throw this out.
Ns. hCunley asked that the City bring them what they want to fo#ow, either the PPh¢, or
some other process. It might be something the Un/on could agree w/th. Ms. Munley
stated that with three procedures, two of them would be violated, no matter what. Ms.
Lytle thought it was expecting a lot of the Union to expect it to manage the City's hiring
practices. She stated that she could not check everything out and see if the City was
handling it properly The only time she finds out about it is when somebody questions it
and says, "! applied and ! didn't get this." I~lr. Lee agreed that Human Resources should
have the responsibility for this. He also agreed with Ns. I~unley's feeling that there
should be one process that is fo#owed by everyone.
Ms. Munley asked Mr. Lee what the Police and Fire had and Mr. Lee responded, the
PPM. The City tries to use the PPM universally except that the Blue Collar unit is
governed by the old Civil Service method. Ms. Munley inquired about the discriminatory
items Mr. Lee had mentioned earlier. Mr. Lee responded that there was an eligibility list
that came out of Civil Service and it was discriminatory. He stated that the current PPM
was more open and competitive. Ms. Munley asked if the Blue Collar procedure would
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Meeting Minutes
NCF&O Negotiation Session - White Collar
Boynton Beach, Florida
October 30, 2003
be more affected by the Savings Clause (which says if something becomes illegal, you
can't do it any more.)
Ms. Munley did not want to give up ]ob Posting and Bidding in the contract and stated
that the Union wanted one procedure that will be followed by everyone.
Mr. Lee indicated they would have to pull the Police and Fire contracts because for
promotional positions, they had a slightly different procedure. The recruitment process
the City uses, including the Police and Fire, is the same. Ms. Munley stated that the
Union might as well keep what they had if it was PPM anyway.
At 10:50 a.m. a CAUCUS was called. The meeting resumed at 11:24 a.m.
Ms. Munley announced that on the grievance issue, the Union wants to consult with
their attorney. Ms. Munley does not have any other contracts where it is like what the
City wants. She understood the intent to streamline the process, but discipline and
grievances were always standalone articles.
The Union was willing to agree to .lob Posting and Bidding today as follows: The Union
is willing to delete the Recruitment and Selection section in Article 22 (because it looked
like the City's process for that) if the City could accept the .lob Posting and Bidding they
already had with these changes: 1) Add the preference points from number A7 in
Article 22, 2) that appropriate bargaining unit designations be placed on all job postings
and job descriptions, and that 3) every effort will be made to promote from within when
an employee has the skill and ability that meets the requirements of the position. Ms.
Munley wrote these points up in the form of a Union Proposal, which she distributed to
the City.
Next Meetings
On November 13, 2003 at 9:30 a.m., a White Collar meeting will be held. At 1:30 the
same day, there will be a Blue Collar meeting. The same arrangement will occur on
November 20, 2003.
The meeting ended at 11:33 a.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Susan Collins
Recording Secretary
(103103)
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