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Minutes 04-02-57MINUTFS OF SPECIAL MEETING ON NEED FOR A S~.~AGE DISPOSAL SYSTEM Date: April 2, 1957~ Time: ;,:15 P. M. Place: City Hal!, Boynton~Beach, FiQrida. Nr. Mort H. Partin, Mayor; Mr. Donald Rehb~rg, Vice-Fmyor; ~. Stanley *Weaver, Councilman; M~r. L. S. Chadwelt, Council~; }~r. Harvey E. Oyer, Oouncilman; Mr. Robert G~iffith, City Attorney; Mr. N. R. Field; Mr. Peter Brsmd; Mr. Lee, Head of the Sanitation Department of the State Board of Health; Mr. Ben O~Neii, Sanitary E~eer, State Board of Health; Mr. Hazel, Engineer for the local FHA office in, F/ami; the Chief Underwriter of the FHA office; Mr. McCarney, FHA Atlanta office; and others. M~. Field: Nm. Lee, head of the Sanitation Department of ~he State Board of Health, in connection ~_th the Rolling Green Ridge Subdivision, i have offered to F~t in a sewage disposal system in the rest of the area that ?~_ll meet with the City's overall plan of which I understand they have ~employed engineers now ye work on in connection ~ith the sewage system for the whole town. ! would engineer this in such a way that it would meet-~iththeir overall plan, %~_th the agreement that I would have a franchise subjecv that they could buy the system at actual cos$ at anytime they so desire. ~. Reh~rg: How big a system would this be? Field: I am not ~u engineer and could not begin ~o estimate. ~r overall holdings im the City limits amouut to 1800 acres in addition to ~he First Addition. ~wir~ Rehbttrg:" Do you only intend this to take care of that that lies wes~ of what you have Mir. Field: That was the plan. I would like to have it engineered to take care of the ether up here° What I first proposed to do was p~t in a syssem and water drain plant~ I could get a franchise or bond. You decided then no~ to do anything on the sand ridge, but when we go~ tO the rest of it. Mro Wea'Fer: One objection was we did no~ wan~G to give a xeater franchise. The City is in nc position financially ~o do anything. ?ne cost of selling bonds today is no~ advantageous, Since the City is so scattered out~ there is no concentration of population. It would be q%tite a costly project. Also feel, however, something could be worked giving a separate frsnchise for a sewage system. That is the only way to go into lo. They could no~ combine franchise and sell their water system to a private compsr4v. Fir. Field: I am sure M~. Lee has ~band!ed many of these kinds of deals, I s~mnot f~miliarwith the engineering point of view, whether the system can be worked impartable from wa~er, but must have some cooperation to protect the bills. -2- Mro Lee: M~y in Florida that have City water have their o~n s~er systemu It worked very well. There is one in West Florida. Glen Haven has a very nice system. The Subdivision uses City water, They handle it very nicely~ It is most disagreeable that the water and sewer facilities be tied together. In some instances, I believe, where they have a private o~med sewer, public o%~ed water, they have negotiated an agreement by which the bills are handled by the Fablic utility at a ~reasonable collection fee, and, ~he State Health Department would look more favorable on that. I do not k~ow many cases where people fail to pay the sewer charge. The Supreme Court r~ied that water can be cut off if a man does not pay the s~er charge. There are several in Florida that work satisfactorily~ one in tP~ Jacksonville area. 14?ny can do their ~wn collection. Occasionally, they had to threaten to disconnect the G~ line. How big before a sewer can m~ke profit? There are many views on that. As few es 27 houses on a system is no~ economical. 150 on up, A sewer system will begin to come out, first operate and maintain. If the sewer charge is X dollars~ going ~o take in range of 250 or 300 minimum to operate it with that size a system° The larger the system, the 'larger operation. We are not talking 300 houses in South East Florida. I don~t care to say just how many houses. Many are getting along very well with 300 to 500 be~ses. N,~o Oye'r: Our problem is distance. Mr. Lee: Speaking of a house on every lot, in a City operated like yours, Niceville, their treatment plant only costs so much per house. The sewer r~ns up. Mrl Oyer: Do you expect that in the future nearly ~11 subdivisions will be req%1ired to have them? Mr. Lee: Yes Sir. Does it make any difTerence on the elevation, type of soil, or size of the subdivis ion? The size of a s~lx%ivision may no~ process under fifty acres. When we get into the rangeof 20 er more acres, we start looking. Some subdivisions are working on.trait 50 or 60~ 20 acres. On subdivisions where the elevation is good, soil adequate, we do no~ have much to say about it~ Mr. Weaver: We engaged Russell and Axon of Day~ena Beach to check the feasabi!ity of outfall into Lake Worth instead of hav~_ug a sewer plant or the feasability of hav~ our o~n plant. They are supposed to give us a ruudo~n on each Situation~ We have been waiting 'three months. Mr. Field: Any word yet? M~. Weaver: No. M~. Field: Could I call them so I can tell Mr. Lee? ~2r. Weaver: ! believe they have 8-n office in Lake Worth now. Mr. Lee: They have an office in St. Petersburg and one in Daytona. -3- _Mr. O:Neit: I don:t believe they have anything. They have several jobs in this County dormant. Mr. Field: Do you have any objection to hav~g a meeting here and ask them howL they are getting along. ~. Partin smd N_r. Oyer had no objection. Mr. Oyer: Is there any aid ~ne State can give? Not the State. ! do not m~e any promises. Public Law 660 was enacted in Congress, and your City received a memo in early fall or late s,w~mer that this was available, urging you to retain consulting er~eers and make application. It also listed how much Florida got, $910,000 aud a few dollars for this fiscsl year. We received 39 applications totaling $55,000,000 of which about lO% wo~tld have been gran~s, so it was the du~y of that b~ by the State Health Department ~o set up priority. We made a summ~y in which public health was first. Wate~ta got No. I priority. The City of Arcadia, Apalachicola, and Belle G~ade were in that category. No one has received it yet. Belle Glade was N~. 7. They had $227,000. When the plans come in, there will be a critique of those. ~e confirm by Public Law 660. There is a Health Education Welfare Bill in C.o.~n~r. ess. There is some difficulty with this Bill. I have a letter from ~il~lme M~tthews, Congressman from Gs~esville, that he was havin~ diffi- c~l~y. Instead of being $910,000, ii will ~e $907,000 .thi~ time. Mr. Weaver: In other words, new applicants have the same chance. They have the sa~e ch,~ee. The las~ one we had was public health reasons. Other one was cost of project. Tte one that cost more per capita got fi ' ~ ' ~ ~ ' · · ye pomn~s, d~t~?~d by ~he mmmediate ~-ucome of 2amilies of each community as-~ by the Bureau of Census. This new time ! am going to enLer another criteria. Those towns ready to lay projec%s within the ne.xt .severs~ years, may~be Janu~ry, 19~8. I ~fll have to withdraw that prmormty as there is no reason to priority Belle Glade and sit for three years and not do anything. Belle Glade wilt get back into it later if there is money avai!able. That will have a big influence as to who gets it~ Mr. Oyer: If a coB~nity was ~o apply for that aid, what is th~ length of time before they wo~d get a classification from you? We set a cutsff ~Zte. I gave Janu~y 15 as the cutoff date, four months. It took us the ~suat a ~dministrative t-~:~me of getting them ~o Atlanta. Must meet Federal propriety. Then they review the technical details, whether an inspector is an inspector° N~. Oyer: Tha~t would be three or four months from the cutoff date. Mr. Lee~ tt would he less time if the ~own is ready, and if the application is ready, and all f~scal financing and engineering plaus are ready~ it does nob t~ke tkir ty days. Mr. 0yet: If we w~nz to consider approact~ng it from a m~nicipal angle, time would not matter? Lee: No, With 'the status of the economy minded Congress. It is just in the house now. %q~en the Senate acts, i don~t know. As soon as Congress decides, we can have a bill in to take the ceiling off the 50. As soon as Congress decides, we -~_i! be notified, and there will be another memo in which we will put a cut off date of ninety days. ~. Field: What was the !anges~ _~ranz recommended? r-uF!orida, $ ~0,000.00 ms the larges~ the law specified. 30% or $250,000.00, If you have lines going into the water way, it would take the main interceptors. No grant has been made yet. The applications went to Atlanta. We do not take any Engineer's figures. .Mr. Wee~ver: Without the right grants? bit. Lee: You are t ~hinking of HBFA. ~"ney have legal toils of pnrctmsing bonds in case you cannot sell your bonds some other place. We are trying, through Charlie Bennett, to get Mr. Cole of FP~A to come up with a lower interest ra~e. The bond market is somewhat better then it was four or five days Weaver: School bonds are better. Brockway reco~ended treatment plants farther out in the wes%em part of town. Septic tank ~ere could be reconditioned. It %ould be better to pump it out. That is a decision for theCity Government and the E~gineers, I would say build it iu front of City Hall, Seriously, one of th~ big problems is the mental hazard of s~ge treatment plants. Many water plants are bulls t_bat have a grea~er odor than sewer. If you move it back in, you mus~ bri~.g it ~o some body of water. M~. Oyer: Does the State Board have any requirements of disposal of Water after it is out of the treatment plant? Lee: Tn?y have al! sorts of requirements. In Jacksonville, we would requi~e prmma_ry treatment. Tampa has a primaryplant because th~e~.go out 3,000 to 5,000 feet. We recommend the degree of t~eatment contingent on where the flow will go. We would be reluctant for it %o go into a dry ditch° Mm. Oyer: Would where it connects with the Inter-Coastal Waterway be be~ter tb~ I~4DD? Lee: It would came ou-o abou~ the s~me, because LWDD has a good bit of wa~er in it~ Venetian Isles is surrounded by canals and is par~ of t~e drainage district. If we t~y to use the Boynton Canal to dischsrge the fill from the system, we will be dumping it into the waterway which would not be too good. -5- It depends on the degree of ~rea'omen~. You can Ureat it, bu'~ I would not reeo~end it. We only require the following: protect public hesith and prevent epidemics. Mr. Weaver: We could not go s.long with West Palm Beach. Lee: West Palm Beach put in Lake Worth. It would be satisfactory as far as the Board of Health is concerned. l'k~. Oyer: Getting~back to the degree of treatment to meet the requirements, into a canal you say you could meet your requirements ~o el~mlua~e color or odor? Lee: Chlorine is very simple and inexpensive. Take~ out 85% of oxygen demand. Mr. ~yer: Can you get any byuroducts? No, jus~ very valuable soil conditioner, bus you do not produce eno~A~h ~o make it pay in a small plant. It is funny :o know of a town without a treatment plant. /gr. Weaver: ~qhat happens in -these rural areas similar ~o the development in Green Acres or Congress Avenue where you have everything? Mr, O~Neil: Sewage is flowing on the ground. Lee: It is a shame and disgrace for this S~ate to build on septic tanks. The septic tank was designed for rural areas. It went in vogue twentY-five ~ears ago. MacClennywith a population of 800 people has a sewage plant. Neptune has one. Mr. Field: I know we need private engineers, ~t what in the nature of cos~ is a treatment plant to get the right of an Lee: You mean an off outflalt. ~ I do not know. Palm Beach is the only one being put in now. Weaver: P. Ussel! and A~on said outfall is more expensive. Mr. Lee: Let me caution you on outfalls. Miami Beach has had one for twenty-five years. Weaver: We are close to the Gulf Stream here. You~ud*Lake Worth are going to grow. I bet you will be tripled or quad- rupled in t9701 How far can you take it into the Gulf Streamwithout it backing up? Insist on some type of pretreatmen'~ in case it ever becomes necessary? We mus% meet the population. Put in good ~reatment so you cea control it. We can treat domestic waste any place you want to put the plant. It will not be o~noxions or a public health hazard. Locate it where yoM have a good receiving area. The spot you mentioned going to the inlet is a good place. Mr. Oyer: How much would it cost? -6- Mr. Lee: $125.00 or $150.00 a house is a rough figure for a treatmau~ plant. Mr. Field: On a town of lOO,O00 people, the treatment plant would not cost a million dollars ? ~4r. Lee: Oh, no,, Mr. 0yer: 6,000 to 10,:000 people~ Mr. Lee: Do not plan for 6,000 people. 10%000 people would be one-half million dollars. Mr. Field: It might cost nearly as m~ch for 50,000 as I00,000. Mr. Lee: The thing~o do is design for your ultimate and b~ild in sections. We build subdivision sewage treatment plants. Sewage treatment in Florida is only ~en years old. ~r. Oyer: Is the biggest expenditure sewers or treatment plant? ~. Lee: Sewers. Florida has more lift stations per capita th,= any other State~ with exception perhaps of Louisiana. Mr. Weaver: We realize that in Mr. Field's Second Addition, there is a different type of sand than his First Addition, and there is no doubt in our mind~ that a sewage system must go in there. Possibly Me b~d~l~or advice on it. In so called coarse sand, the percolation and ability of that soil to take care of the sewage, we never have ~o worry about it. We realize the more houses you build etc., the less percolation. There will be a new ordinance that will require the minimum size of lots, we were discussing 75~ lots, at the building line. To get that much area, we have been told, the area will take care oF the septic tanks. You. have h~d some ~poor advice. !wish theywere here. There are more ~ng?neers ~-u Florida enr-~'~nee~ing in septic tanks th~n engiheering septic vmn~s out. Not one of ~hem ~bas 'bo face anyone when they fail. Septic tanks were designed for rural areas. We bmve set a criteria where you have an acre of ground for a septic ~9~uk, we wo~ld go along with that recommendation. We wo~Id prefer a larger lot of gro'~d. Septic tanks, ten years ago, would work better closer together because wed id not use as much wa%er. With 70~ x !00~ lots, it doesn:t leave much space for percolation of soil. The percolation test is no good. A percolation test is done by wa%er. The st~ff coming out of septic tanks is not water. How do you expect sandy soil to percolate? Mr. Fme~d. The problem I have m~setf, and the reason I asked that you meet withMr. Lee is thereat less he has some assurance that you are going to allow a treatment plant for sewage to be worked out, he can not approve ~ land I have, and I must have State Board of Health approval to secure financing, and that was the reason I zsked for this meetingS so I would know you were considering a sewage system for the whole to~m. But I cannot wait until you have all yo,~r plans for the whole to~rn or I would be ~JLd up on all I spent on advertising. I car~ have the same on,neet you have, but I would like t~ know the ch~-~ge~ and you would too, because you would take it over. I do feel that before I can go ahead with any degree of safe%y~ that I would have to know I can go ~ahead under some franchise with ±he agreement that you can buy t~at and work it out that my plan can work out with your overall plan. Fir. Weaver: I think we should have the same engineer. Mr. Chadwell: How many acres do you have? Field: All of my land is -in the City limits, but assuming you would extend the City l~ts to La~rence Road, I have about 1800 acres west of the SAL. ~k.. Oyer: How much would you be coming in with at the present time? .Mm. Field: I own about 1200 acres in the City limits now. Mr. Oyer: Yournext addition would be what? Mr, Field: 350 would be a rough guess~ Brand: 3/4 of a mile from north to south. ~. 0yer: I tD~ink we should do some discussion on this. ~12. W~aver: From what Mr. Lee said, we know we are going to have to do it or repair the system we do have which is overloaded now. We all ~now it is in bad shape. Actually the City should, as Mr. Lee s~_ es~ed, try to acquire some property where our present septic tank is located. Also when the engineers come in, we should prepare to purchase properoy where the engineers say. M~o Oyer: We cannot do much until we get the report in, I was thinking there ~re several alternatives ~ I think we are Fortunate if we can get it going in five years. We are more or less undeveloped at the presen~ time. If Mr. Field's system can go in with the rest of it, we can save money in not t~aring up streets. ~r. ~Oyer: Do you know how soon that treatment plant will have to be in operation? Field: We will not be developing in less than six to eight months. Mr. Oyer: Even so, after that, another delay. Field: I believe Stanley said you are going to put your lines in before the streets. Mr. Lee: Ninety days from the ti~ they build houses until you need a plaut. Nm. Weaver: Would you start six months from now g~ading your streets? Mr. Brand: ~e have high hopes. 0y~: Field: Regardless of what method the treatment was handled to date, you have to put. in your mains. Before I can have any plan, I have to have a plan now. cannot wait ,mutil I am ready to build a house. Mr. Chadwell: You want to know where you stand. Mr. Field Mr. Par tin: Mr. Field: I I could not do a~y planning until ! plan on the sewer. It is pa~t of the development. The only thing I could say is to tell Mr. Lee we engaged Russel and Axon for survey a~ are waiting fo2 their report. Mr. Field can ~ontact them. I will contact them. Lee: Field will be in the area until Thursday night. If you don~t mind, you could contact me then, and I will contact them in the meantime and also ask them to consider my area in their overall plan so I can give you exactly what they have. Mr. Lee: This keeps going on and on, but I think the Council should know what the situation is. The State Health Department did no~ look in favor on septic t~. ~e ~ not like them any- where. Mr. Field has been at my office to see me. He should convince the State Health Department that sewers will be avail- able to get Federal insurance. We have not released any in the section he is interested in. Maybe I sm wrong. Maybe the Board of Health is wrong. We released things with the assurance things would be done before and nothing was done. Mr. Field is willing to go ahead with a franchise. I am plegsed with your getting a report from Russel and Axon. Decmde whether you want to give Mr. Field a franchise or what assurance you could give to ~ nvince the Health Department that sewers will be at a certain spot at a certain time so we can advise other agencies. We know in ~e very near future that we will be faced with a bond issue, and it has been my opinion that the City bid go into a bond issue on sewers. -9 - O'Neil: Just ~ sterday I transferred plans to Tr. Lee for water main~extension for the City of Boynton Beach. i recommended that the State Bo~rd of Health look at extensions you have made and the quality of water to determine whether you are able to take care of the people yo~ now h ava. Weaver We engaged J. P. Carroll who has drilled a test well. The reports were not too good. We a_~e willLug to spend money to find water. ~r. Oyer: As far as wells go, it will cost money. Mr. Lee: i know J. P. Carroll is a good man, but Z think you need some eng.~.nee~, s instead of' a well driller, Because water is getting short. Field: ~$iI1 you allow me to contact the engmneers tomorrow and te.~! them o£ ou~ dmscussmon, and i ~mll ask them what they wmll charge. All the Councilmen gave their consent. ~g~. Field: Then we could get some kind of an agreement. The meeting adjourned at 6:~5 P. M. EXCERPTS FR0~ MII~0~ES C~ }~:~ING C~ PLLENING BOA~D APRIL 3~ 1955'/ ~r, Feltis moved that the Planning Board recomm, end to the City Co~.cil that the zoning requested by Er. ]~tch for the area referred to in his letter of Hatch 20, 1957 be aDpreved, with thepprevisions that the area be properly contrelle8 and Droperly !andsoaped,-.~ud that the types of business located therein be definitely restricted and strictly regulated by the City Co~ncil. ~r. Sfmmonds seconded. Eotion carried. ~ir. P~cey moved that the Board recommend to the City Council that the zoning for Seacrest Hills subdL~iaion for a n~Lnimum of 1£~0 sq. fi., as requested by Er. ~en l~rray, and the zoning for 1~00 sA. ft. as requested by ~r. Carl Warner for _Worest Hills subdivision, be approved. Er. ~rkel seconded. ~;~otion carried. ~Ir. Eerkel moved, Er. 0akes seconded, that the Planning t_.e Industrial 3card to Board endorse the recommendation of h have mn aerial photo industrial map ~ade of the Cit~ of E~oynton Beach. ~,{ot ion carried. E~rtin Durkin Chairman, Planning PP.