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Minutes 06-29-89MINUTES OF WORKSHOP MEETING OF PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD AND COMMUNITY APPEARANCE BOARD RE REVIEW OF CHAPTER 19, PLANNING AND ZONING, BOYNTON BEACH CODE, HELD IN COMMISSION CHAMBERS, PRIME BANK PLAZA, BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA, THURSDAY, JUNE 29, 1989 AT 7:00 P. M. Planning and Zonin~ Board Present Robert Walshak, Chairman Nathan Collins, Jr., Vice Chairman ~arcld Blanchette Daniel Richter Carl Zimmerman Murray Howard, Alternate Absent Marilyn Huckle Gary Lehnertz Dee Zibelli, Alternate Community Appearance Board Arthur Berman, Chairman Jean Sheridan, Vice Chairwoman George Davis Eleanor Shuman, Alternate Absent Walter Kies Gertrude Lubin John Serrentino Pearl Wische Stephen Jones, Alternate Carmen Annunziato, Planning Director Jim Golden, Senior Planner Tambri Heyden, Assistant Planner Don Jaeger, Building Official Med Kopczynski, Site Development Administrator Chairman Walshak called the meeting to order at 7:05 P. M. The Members of the Boards were introduced, and it was noted that Vice Mayor Olenik and Johnnetta Broomfield, Director of Community Improvement, were present. Sec. 19-22 Mr. Annunziato apprised the Members that he borrowed Sec. 19-22 and used Sec. 19-23 for the second half of what he thought needed to be said. He titled 19-22 "Review and - i - MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA JUNE 29, 1989 approval of projects of minor significance and changes to projects not previously approved by the City Commission". Mr. Annunziato said many projects exist in the City which have never received the kinds of review everyone was familiar with. They were built prior to this process being implemented in the mid 70s. They must have a status with respect to Chapter 19. Mr. Annunziato read what he had pro- posed for Sec. 19-22 as his answer to how these projects should be dealt with from a statutory point of view. Chairman Walshak asked if it was necessary for the Technical Review Board (TRB) to review those projects. Mr. Annunziato answered, "Absolutely." Chairman Walshak was under the impression that they were allowing building permit review on projects less than $250,000. Mr. Jaeger explained that the reason for the review is to coordinate the affected departments. Mr. Annunziato informed Chairman Walshak that the TRB is now meeting twice a month. They used to meet just once a month. Vice Mayor Olenik questioned how they got from $100,000 to $250,000. Chairman Walshak replied that it was the opinion of the Building Department and Planning Department that in the last 11 years, inflation has caused it to go from $100~000 to $250,000. Mr~ Jaeger informed Chairman Berman that the value of buildings is determined by the square feet, depending on the occupancy. Mr. Annunziato added that it is the total contracted construction cost. In his mind, it would mean everything a person would have to pay to make the building meet the City Codes, such as drainaget utili- ties~ landscaping, and the building. He did not know whether the words, "total contracted construction cost", would mean that to everybody. Mr. Annunsiato asked if anyone had better words. After discussion, it was decided this language was appropriate. Definition Section in Chapter 19 Vice Mayor Olenik asked whether there is a definition section in Chapter 19. After discussion, Mr. Annunziato stated that he would create a definition section. Mr. Annunziato read the remainder of Sec. 19-22 and explained that this referred to a site plan which has never received any public review. Many things built prior to the mid 70s can never receive public review. Mr. Annunziato asked what - 2 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA JUNE 29, 1989 the City should do with them if someone wants to add a room, change a facade or modify a parking lot. This was saying the process would not involve Board review. Chairman Berman mentioned cases that had come before the CAB. Mr. Jaeger clarified that Chairman Berman was talking about variances and appeals to administrative decisions under the Landscape Code, which will still come before the CAB. Mr. Annunziato explained that this was saying if they meet Code, they will not have to go through a public review if the nature of the improvement i~volves less than $50,000. Chairman Berman asked who would decide whether they meet Code° Mr. Annunziato answered that it would primarily be Mr. Jaeger. Time Frame Mr. Blanchette asked what the time frame would be from the time a person makes application until the time he gets his permit. If the TRB determines there are no site related improvements and it is not a site issue, it will No to the offices of the Building Official for permitting. Administra- tively, they are taking the TRB out of review unless it is a site related issue. Mr. Blanchette again posed his question. If it is strictly a permitting issue, Mr. Jaeger said it will be reviewed. If it does not comply with rev~ew, comments will be mader and it will be given back to the applicant. It will be up to the applicant to address the comments in an expedient manner. The Building Department has no control over how quick the applicant addresses comments. Mr. Blanchette said the reason for the workshop was to streamline the process so people can get permits quicker. If a person did everything as fast as he could, Mr. Blanchette asked how long it would take before he could get a permit. Mr. Jaeger answered that it would depend on what else was being reviewed and the manpower. Right now, the Building Department is turning out plans for small com- mercial projects in two or three weeks. Mr. Jaeger did not know that they could set a time, and he explained. If there are no problems, the person can get a building permit in two weeks, but Mr. Jaeger did not know how they could stipulate that in an Ordinance. Mr. Blanchette just wanted to find out where the City stood in time for a building permit because now it is weeks and months. With the suggestions being made to Chapter 19. Chairman Walshak thought that time would be cut down. - 3 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA JUNE 29, 1989 Colors Mrs. Sheridan asked who would decide about colors. Mr. Annunziato answered that the TRB would only review projects for conformity with the Codes and ordinances. The color of a building is not currently a Code issue. Mr. Jaeger advised that the Code says the addition must be in harmony with the rest of the site. This was upsetting to Mrs. Sheridan. There were further comments. Modifications to Site Plans After ARproval Vice Mayor Olenik pointed out that there would be nothing to enforce it if a project such as Catalina Center comes before all of the Boards, has all they need per Ordinance, but by the time they build the project, they take out all of the additional landscaping they were going to put in, and the amount becomes less than $250,000. At the last workshop meeting, Chairman Walshak recalled it was the consensus of opinion that if a project such as Catalina Center agreed to do things in front of various Boards and the City Commission, and if it was on the record, th~ City would have something to stand on. If they come back with a site plan modifica- tion and change the landscaping, as long as it still con- forms to the Code and it is under $50,000, Vice Mayor Olenik said the City could end up with a marked different project than what was approved. Mr. Annunziato stated that this is addressed in the next Section. Sec. 19-23 Mr. Annunziato read proposed Sec. 19-23. There was discussion. Mr. Annunziato explained to Vice Mayor Olenik that an appeal of the TRB's determination and an appeal of a site plan amendment are almost the same thing. If it was a CAB type thing, Vice Mayor Olenik said, as a Commissioner, he would want it to go back to the CAB and not make the decision without getting input from that Board. Mr. Annunziato thought that was important. Chairman Walshak emphasized that the reason for this is to get smaller projects approved.as quickly as possible. Commissioner Olenik felt everytime a determination is made that there is a substantial change, the applicant will always appeal, and it will never go to the P&Z and CAB Boards. Chairman Walshak reminded him that they were talking about projects that were to be handled administra- tively. He stated that it is hoped that the TRB will work - 4 MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA JUNE 29, 1989 it out with the applicants. If the TRB does not agree with the applicant~ Vice Mayor Olenik felt it would be a whole new ball game. Discussion ensued. Mr. Annunziato explained that the Commission could agree, disagree, or say they are not prepared to make a decision. Vice Mayor 01enik determined this only pertained to previously approved site plans. If the~change is greater than $50,000 it goes to the P&Z and CAB. If not, it goes to the TRB. If the change is less than $50,000 but the TRB says it is a substantial change, if the applicant does not appeal, he will have to go through the process. If the applicant does appeal, he will have to go straight to the City Commission. If the City Commission decides it is not a substantial change, Chairman Walshak advised that it would go straight to the Building Department. If the City Comn~ission determines that it is a substantial change, Chairman Walshak said the City Commission would have many options° ~ir. A~nunziato explained the o~tions the City ConU~ssion would have. The P&Z Board Members seemed to feel that no applicant would want to go through all of that. Mr. Jaeger pointed out that an applicant would lose two or three weeks on his project going to the Commission. Vice Mayor Olenik did not agree with the statement that every delay is a City initiated delay. Chairman Walshak commended Mr. Annunziato for the good job he did on Chapter 19. Sec. 19-28 Mr. Annunziato read the Section and commented that this was where the test would be if the regulations become effective. At that point and time, Chairman Walshak wondered if build- ing permits can be approved without another review by the Building Department° Mr, Annunziato asked if the plans could be split in two and a separate Building Code type of review could be had at the same time the City Codes are being reviewed by the TRB. Once the plan is approved conceptually, Mr. Jaeger advised that there should be no reason for the TRB to meet. It would then become permit issues. He explained to Mr. Annunziato that the Utilities Department will permit utilities; the Engineering Department will permit engineering drawings, etc. The interaction of all of those elements will be handled at the time of conceptual approval. - 5 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA JUNE 29, 1989 Mr. Golden wondered how they would resolve technical conflicts. Mr. Jaeger answered that it will be handled in the conceptual approval process. Although Tradewinds was called a conceptual approval, Chairman Walshak said the City wants colored renderings on all four sides of the building and colored chips in addition to what Tradewinds showed the Board. Mr. Annunziato asked what the Members thought a conceptual plan was. In addition to what he had stated, Chairman Walshak said an applicant would also have to submit the elevation of the buildings and a landscape plan. Mr. Jaeger wanted to see a schematic on where utility lines would be to see if there would be any conflicts with any other elements of the site plan. He stated that light poles, drainage structure, and paving are elements of the paving and drainage permits, which can be handled at the permit level as long as the conceptual plans have enough informa- tion. Any s~ecific problems can still be resolved between one or two departments rather than the entire TRB. Vice Mayor Olenik asked why they ~ere utilizing the TRB. Mr. Jaeger advised that the TRB is there to resolve conflicts between the different departments or to make recommen- dations. There needs to be enough information on the plans to see if a project is viable and if there are any conflicts. The City asks for final construction drawings at the time of site plan review. Mr. Jaeger thought they had to make sure they include enough information. If all Issues can be resolved at the conceptual review, Mr. Annunziato did not think the TRB would have to meet ~gain. Sec. 19-17 Mr. Annunziato replaced "(a)" with what amounts to a detailed survey. Chairman Walshak read paragraph 1 and wished to add!~ '~with unity of title." Discussion ensued about unity of title. Mr. Golden thought they were talking about "unity of title" and "unified control". After discussion, Mr. Annunziato stated that when he does this again, he will give the Boards some words. The Members had no trouble with paragraphs (a), 2 through 5 inclusive, and paragraph (b) was agreeable with both Boards. Sec. 19.17 (c) Mr. Jaeger added "Computation of required number of parking spaces." Paragraph (d) was acceptable to the Boards. - 6 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA JUNE 29, 1989 Sec. 19.17 (e) Mr. Annunziato asked if anybody would expect to see traffic patterns where there is a question. Chairman Waishak had no problem with that. Mr. Bianchette referred to departments sometimes duplicating comments. Mr. Annunziato asked why that was a problem. Mr. Jaeger agreed with Mr. Blanchette that the TRB should administratively get together and decide what their expertise is. After further discussion, Chairman Walshak said they should keep that as a suggestion. After explaining about the TRB, Mr. Annunziato stated that he did not think the fact that two people may make the same comment was such a big issue. He determined that the Boards want to see traffic control signs in this paragraph. Sec. 19.17 (f) Mr. Jaeger thought the applicant could indicate CBS wall, louvered wall, or fence on the plans. Vice Mayor Olenik thought the CAB would need the elevation of the wall. Chairman Walshak felt it could be indicated on the archi- tectural renderings. Chairman Walshak thought walls and fences should be shown on a site plan. The colors could be submitted with the architectural rendering. Sec. 19.17 (~) Mr. Annunziato read this paragraph and said the Pollce Department is usually interested in the location of light standards. There is no Code that says where the light standards should be located. Generally, the Architect locates them. There was discussion. If light standards are not shown on a plan, Mr. Annunziato asked how a reviewer will know he has a problem. Mr. Jaeger answered, "When it comes in for permit." Mr. Annunziato thought they would be negating the purpose of the TRB if they eliminated the things people need to review. He thought the location of light standards should be shown on the plan Vice Mayor Olenik asked if they were technically talking about weeks between the time it would be reviewed by the TRB and the time it would go for permits. Chairman Walshak informed him it would be months, which was why they had this meeting. Mr. Richter left the meeting at 8:25 P. M. m MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA JUNE 29, 1989 There was discussion abouu the permitting process and the TRB. Mr. Golden thought there may be a tendency for the Architects to show the location of the fixtures, but he thought an engineering drawing should be submitted when they get to the permit level. Mr. Jaeger agreed with Mr. Golden that if the applicants are required to show the lighting UP front and they go back and do a study, they will have to change the location of the light poles. There is no way you can conceptually draw squares on a plan and say that is where they will end up. Mr. Annunziato agreed, but it was his opinion that if the information is important enough, it would make the Police Department unable to make its preliminary review. If they decided they did not want the Police Department to make its preliminary review, he said they~ should not do anything with lighting. Chairman Walshak thought if the Police Department would participate in the review process on the building end, that would solve the problem° Vice Chairwoman Sheridan (CAB) wondered who would decide whether the lighting would be a disturbance to the public, as she thought it was important. Mr. Annunziato answered that the Planning Department has been doing that. Chairman Walshak explained how the P&Z Board also looks at it. There was discussion about the quality of review the Boards felt were needed. Johnnetta Broomfield, Director of Community Improvement, stated that she has been getting comments from people about the cost of pro3ects. People want to know what the require- ments are for everything. If people do not know about this at the front end because there has not been a detailed enough review, they will compute in their minds one cost for the development. As they get through the process, they will find there are more costs because some things were not reviewed at the beginning of the process. A lot of people are appreciative of the comments that come out of the TRB because it gives them a better perspective on how much money they will be paying for a development. Ms. Broomfield added that some comments came into the Community Redevelopment Agency (CRA) from the Central Business District (CBD). They may be small projects, they have concerns about what is being required. but If a developer comes in with a major project and does not know up front from his Architects and Engineers what that - 8 MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA JUNE 29, 1989 project is going to cost, Chairman Walshak commented that he is not much of a developer. There is a tremendous cost before an applicant can get to the City Commission to find out whether he has a project. Chairman Walshak stated that they are trying to cut that down so that people can get their projects to the City Commission quickly. Ms. Broomfield responded that it is very helpful when Engineers and Architects listen to the TRB. She did not think they should streamline the process or negate informa- tion to the end of the process to the detriment of the project. Chairman Walshak advised that Ms. Broomfield was badly mistaken if she felt they were loosening up the Codes of the City. Through this process, Mr. Jaeger said the City Staff will be available to meet with the applicant and discuss the require- ments. Given the best efforts of the City to get the word out, Mr. Annunziato stated that people still do not respond. He told of a plan being rejected three weeks ago, and the comments still were not addressed. This happens time and time again. Mr. Annunziato brought out the fact that the site plan application lists every Code and every ordinance that people must be thinking of. It applied here because it would not save anybody money. The Architects and Engineers will very seldom get the product equal to the Code or the materials to be reviewed. After discussion, Mr. Jaeger co~ented that he thought they wsre eliminating the double reviews. Mr. Golden informed everyone that it takes just under a month to go through a site plan review now. If they go with the conceptual review, it will take about the same time. However, there will be a much more detailed review after the conceptual review. Mr. Golden could not see where the saving of time will occur. Chairman Walshak responded that to prepare the documents required up front right now takes a much longer time. If they do it on the conceptual basis, the front end time will be cut down. Between the time they get conceptual approval and permit approval, the applicant will have time to do what they have to do as far as unity of title, funding~ etc. The consensus was to leave paragraph (g) in. Chairman Walshak thought the City Commission should look at this. Chairman Walshak handed the gavel to Chairman Berman. - 9 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA JUNE 29, 1989 Sec. 19-17, (h) Mr. Annunziato asked if any one knew what a preliminary landscaping plan is. After discussion, it was decided (h) should be rewritten to read: "A landscape plan to include a design that meets Code." Mrs. Shuman thought it should be written somewhere that trees shall not interfere with power lines when they reach their top growth. There was discussion. Sec. 19-17, (j) It was decided the word "and" should be eliminated. Chairman Walshak returned to the meeting. There was discussion about floor plans. Mr. Annunziato preferred not to worry about floor plans. If the types of uses were broken down in terms of square footage, Ms. Heyden said it would help determine the number of parking spaces needed. Sec. 19-17, (k) This was discussed by the Members. Chairman Walshak thought paragraph (k) should be left out. If they were having conceptual utilities, Mr. Golden suggested that maybe they should also have conceptual drainage so they can see where these things will go and how they will interact. Chairman Walshak thought a lot of that had to be addressed by the applicant's Architects and Engineers. Mr. Jaeger wanted to see enough information so that the City could determine whether the project is feasible. There was discussion about water, sewer, drainage, and traffic. M~r. Annunziato clarified that he was talking about improve- ments which are the result of the impact of a development. One way to address that would be to add language to the Parking Lot Regulations which would require mitigation of all off site impact. Those things become public issues. If they are not Code issues, Chairman Walshak emphasized that they should be made Code issues. Chairman Walshak asked if the County Code supersedes the City Code. Mr. Annunziato answered that the County's traffic performance standard will not supersede the City's current requirements. After further discussion, he - 10 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA JUNE 29, 1989 suggested that they talk to the Engineering and the Utilities Departments and let them offer some recommendations. He also thought the sewer and water were very important. Mr. Jaeger said the locations of the sewer and water on the site and the sizes would be good. Mr. Annunziato added hydrant loca- tions~ and further discussion ensued. The consensus of the Board was to recommend that the City Commission consider this with recommendations from the Utilities Director and an Engineer. Secm 19-17 (1) It was decided this paragraph should remain. Sec. 19-17 (m) and (n) It was decided that (m) should remain. Mr. Annunziato read paragraph (n). There was discussion about colored render- lngs. If the renderings are accepted, Mr. Jaeger said they become part of the approval. Blueprints are microfilmed, but colored drawings cannot be microfilmed. Mr. Kopczynski informed the Members that no storage space is available. Mr. Jaeger said the Building Department ends up with pieces of concrete~ roof tile, etc. it has to keep. There was discussion about colors, whether to require colored elevations, and the back of buildings. Vice Mayor Olenik stressed that if the City does not main- tain control of the color of its buildings, it will not need a CAB. All it will need will be a Landscape Board. In terms of a TRB review, Mr. Annunziato thought if the colors were close to what was approved, the project should be approved. However, if someone wanted to change from gray to orange, that would be a substantial change, and he would recommend that the person go to the City Commission. There was discussion. Chairman Walshak understood that a substan- tial change would be the determination of the TRB. Stora~ Miss Heyden thought a part of this problem could be solved if they would not require that colored elevations be mounted on boards. If they were on a sheet of paper, there would be no problem. Mr. Annunziato advised that is an administra- tive requirement. - 11 - MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA JUNE 29, 1989 There was discussion about samples of tile, brick~ etc. Mr. Annunziato wanted to see applicants reduce them to words. It was the consensus of the Boards that they did not want to see the Building Department or Planning Department diluged with all of these samples. Chairman Walshak stated that it is not Code but policy that causes the applicants to bring in the samples. The City Commission has to direct City Manager Cheney to i~struct the departments not to accept the samples. Mr. Jaeger advised that the CAB appli- cation and the initial drawings should have that infor- mation. The CAB application says, "Material and color for each element." The CAB wanted to see the materials. If applicants are not required to submit this, Mr. Annunziato suspected they would not do it. ~e stated he could draft this so that applicants would be required to bring the samples to the Board or accurately define in the CAB application what the materials are. The Board could then look at the materials, and the applicant can take them home. There was discussion about what a substantial change is. Mr. Annunziato advised that the TRB would make that deter- mination. If no one wants to live with the results, they should not grant the authority. Vice Chairman Sheridan read from the CAB minutes of January, 1988 that it was on the application for site approval that applicants have to submit color renditions. Mr. Annunziato recalled that the P&Z Board required colored elevations of all of its applicants, and this was put on the applications. Mr. Annunziato suggested that Mr. Jaeger look at the CAB application to see if there is any way to make it more definitive relative to materials. Mr. Jaeger preferred to see them on the plans. There was discussion as to who on the TRB would be responsible for aesthetics. Mr. Jaeger said a Landscape/Architecture Inspector was in the budget for two years. Vice Mayor Olenik pointed out that a C.O. Ks not determined by what color a building is. Mr. Howard thought a lawsuit would be facing them if they stopped the construction of a building because of the color of the paint. There was further discussion about when something becomes a substantial change and whether someone should be kept out of -12. MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA JUNE 29, 1989 a building because of the color of paint. Chairman Walshak did not know that the Building Department did not have people to look at aesthetics. He thought Inspectors had to be directed to watch for aesthetics on the completion of buildings. Mr. Jaeger informed him that the Building Department was doing that until the policy change where any modification under $100,000 could be handled administra- tively. Since no permit is required to paint a building, that was just carte blanche saying anybody could do it. Chairman Walshak thought that was misinterPreted. With adequate personnel, Mr. Jaeger said the sites could be monitored more closely. He explained ~hat the Inspectors inspect. Materials and colors were done through a CAB inspection~ Chairman Walshak thought the City Commission should get the Building Department somebody who could follow up on aesthetics and landscaping. Consensus on Colored Renderings The consensus was that elevations of all sides are needed, and only the front elevations need to be colored. The elevations should include written information about materials colors and types at a minimum. Rules of Order Vice Mayor Olenik asked why "Robert's" was left out. If it was included, Mr. Annunziato said he would have to list the edition. From time to time that changes. Vice Mayor Olenik was concerned that another form of Rules of Order could be adopted that may not be as democratic as Robert's Rules of Order. Mr. Annunziato replied that no one could think of any other Rules of Order. The consensus was that current edition of Robert's Rules of Order should be shown. Workshop Meetinq It was decided there should be another workshop meeting on Thursday, July 13, 1989 on the second floor of the Planning and Zoning Building at 7:00 P. M. ADJOURNMENT ~_T~he meeting properly adjourned at 7:00 P. Patricia Ramseyer // Recording Secretary~ (Four Tapes) - 13 -