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Minutes 04-20-89MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD HELD IN COMMISSION CRAMBERS, PRIME BANK PLAZA, BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA, THURSDAY, APRIL 20, 1989 AT 3:30 P.M. PRESENT Robert Walshak, Chairman Nathan Collins Jr., Vice Chairman Harold Blanchette Daniel Richter ABSENT Gary Lehnertz Marilyn Huckle Carl zimmerman Murray Howard, Alternate Carmen Annunziato, Planning Director Chairman Walshak called the meeting to order at 3:30 P.M. and there was The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. Among those in the audience were Commissioners Lee Wische, Ezell Rester and City Manager Peter Cheney. A verbatim transcript of this meeting has been prepared at the request of Chairman Walshak and Commissioner Arline Weiner. Walshak: I want to thank the members on the Board who came today. I know it was kind of short notice but we have an unusual situation where our Planning Dept. is packaging and getting ready to send along all of our recommendations concerning the Comprehensive Land Use proposed Plan to the City Commission within the next couple of days. Therefore, I didn't want to have to get back and put them through a lot more work in sending additional recommendations to the City Commission. I called this meeting under our Ordinance Section 19-5, Duties and Responsibilities of the Board. It shall be the duty and responsibility of this Board to meet at the call of its chairman or vice- chairman for the purpose of considering all requests for zoning changes under the master zoning code of the city, etc. I have had two additional requests since we last met, one as recently as yesterday. I~ A1 Ciklin here? Mr. Deutsch is here in the audience. Before I open it up for discussion, I attended a City Commission meeting Tuesday - 1 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACh, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Richter: evening and I was kind of urked by the fact that Planning and Zoning Board members were appearing before the City Commission as individuals on items that they had ruled on sitting up here as Planning and Zoning Board members. This bothers me. It is totally inappropriate for a P & Z member who sits on this Board and makes recommendations to the City Council and because he or she may be in a minority, moves on to the City Commission to air their views in public audience. I think it borders on enough misconduct to darn near create a situation of misfeasance. And I tell you, members of the Board, I won't let it happen again. We have minority decisions coming out of this Board every time ~we meet. Tho~e minority decisions are forwarded to the City Commission via our Agenda. If anybody on thi~ Board has an opinion, this is the forum that they express their opinion i.n. Sitting up here right now I am the oldest serving member on this Board. I'm not the oldest member, but the oldest serving~member on this Board. I can tell you that I've been on the short end of the stick many', many times on items that I felt very s~rongly about. I've bit my tongue. When I went ~hbme that evening or ~hat day I said to myself, maybe it was my fault for not ~e~xpressi~ my ~pinions more s~rongly. I couldn't .Pe~suad~ the rest of the Board to go along ~t~ ~y opinions° This Board is maljority r~ieg~I We s~nd our oPinions to the City C°~amls~ign and if you are on the minority e~dI, ~his is the forum to discuss your opinions. I will open that up for discussion i~f any of the Board members woul~ like to say anything about that, we'll listen to it at this ~ime. Mr. Chairman, I support your position on this. I feel that it's important that those sitting on this Board express their v~ews here. After the vote is taken, they can speak to whomever they want privately about this, but should not get up before the City Commission, during a Commission meeting, and again try to influence those in the audience as well as those on the City Commission. I feel quite strongly about this myself. - 2 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Walshak: Collins: Walshak: Blanchette: Walshak: Vice Chairman? My personal opinion is basically when the vote is taken if people are dissatisfied in terms of (inaudible) again, the discussion should take place here within the Board. I feel very strongly as you do in terms of that not being discussed openly to the Commission. Mr. Blanchette? The only thing I can comment about is the fact that it is in the Minutes and it's already worded who voted for what and any- body inclined can read the Minutes of the previous meeting and (inaudible). I don't think we have to give reasons why we vote. We're only a recommendation Board. All we are doing is recommending to the City Council or the City Commission our views on the proposed subject and I don't think it should go any further than that. They should get the Minutes, read them and make up their own decision on how they're going to vote. I do not want to demean the integrity of anybody on this Board, of any member on this Board. However, I am very serious about this. As serious as a heart attack. The next time I see it happening I will invoke some sort of censure which I think we have privilege to since we have adopted Robert's Rule of Procedure. There are cen- sure items in here. And I will, believe me, I will invoke it. If you have something to say as a Planning and Zoning Board member on a specific issue that is going to the City Commission, say it here and forever hold your peace. Thank you ladies and gentlemen, for listening to that. One other thing I want to say and I would like to get the opinion and maybe a motion on this from the Board, is the way that the Planning and Zoning Board opinions are pre- sented to the Council. I was bugged a little by that too. I was told that it's a procedure and if we wanted to change it - 3 - MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Blanchette: Walshak: Collins: Walshak: Richter: we could do it formally through a motion. And that procedure is and I heard this Tuesday. I hadn't heard it in the past. And I attend a lot of the City Council meetings. The opinion either for or against was recommended to the City Council. In this case it was an approved item and the names of the dissenting mem- bers were mentioned as dissenting members on that particular approved issue, i think Mr. Annunziato would like a formal motion from us and the Chair will accept a motion at this time, to stop that procedure. Before we get into the motion, I just thought that we had discussed the fact...I was aiming my comments to that very fact, that who voted for or against is in the Minutes. I don't see as it should be brought up again to rehash it over. I think, Mr. Blanchette, it's a matter of policy as far as the Planning staff is con- cerned. If we w~nt to change that policy or change the direction of that particular item, we do it through a formal motion. My question, before we do that, was there any rationale or particular reason why that was done? I've heard varying opinions and I'm not going to talk about it. But I've heard opinions. And I have an opinion of my own, but I don't think that's the issue right now. The issue right now is, our recommen- dations go to the City Council on an approved or denied basis. I'm sure the City Commission knows, they get the Minutes. They know who the dissenting mem- bers are. They know who the approving mem- bers are. I believe that it gives the impression, it's because they don't present the vote on every issue that's presented in front of the City Commission...how and when at the Planning and Zoning Board. They don't pre- sent it in every case. It's only presented in certain cases and in those cases, it appears to me, that they are trying to - 4 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Annunziato: Walshak: Richter: Collins: Walshak: Members: Walshak: Annunziato: influence their opinion or the opinion of those in the audience or the Commission. And I think like Mr. Walshak says, it's already in tbs Minutes. Let it rest. That's the way I feel about it. I might interject one thing. The Minutes are not available to the City Commission within a week of the Planning and Zoning Board meeting oftentimes. But I don't think that that stops them from mentioning the import of their feelings to the elected officials. I have no objection with them voicing their opinions to their elected officials. However, they are a member of this tribu- nal. They sit here and they have to con- duct themselves according to. parliamentary procedure and good propriety. As far as I'm concerned, there's two issues. Propriety rules. This is the forum for any member of this Board to express their opi- nions on an item that's gone before them. I think that once we do establish our recommendation and send it along to the Commission, it should be presented to the Commission on the basis of approved or denied. That's the American way, that's majority rule. The Chair will accept a motion. Mr. Chairman, I make a motion that we adopt a resolution to state on cases before the City Commission on our recommendations, that they have been approved or denied by this Board~ without mentioning vote. I second the motion. It has been moved and seconded that our recommendations to the City Council be done on an approved or denied basis. Any discussion on the motion? All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye Carried, 4-0. Clarification. Just on the basis of the vote? Not even numbers on the vote? - 5 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Walshak: Annunziato: Walshak: Deutsch: Not even the numbers. Approved. Okay. Approved or denied. We had a request from Mr. Deutsch from Deutsch/Ireland to discuss the height limit and the height referendum that we suggested and I may add that we initially suggested to the City Council, or recommended to the City Council that a referendum be put on the ballot, March of 1990 to find out whether or not the City would remove the height restrictions in specific areas. We didn't at that time, if memory serves me well, we did not specifi- cally recommend any height restrictions or limitations thereof. The reason we did that, I believe, is we didn't want to pre- empt the City Commission at City Commission meetings. However, Tuesday night, in the City Commission's wisdom and I think right- fully so, they pushed this item through the Comprehensive Land Plan process to be opened up in front of the public in public audience. Now, since it has become an item that is going to be talke~ about in the Comprehensive Land Use program review, I think it would behoove us to put our recom- mendations in now, because we cannot wait in my opinion, until the public hearing and then get up individua~iy and say th~s because I think we would'be guilty of what I was talking about earlier. This is our forum. So if it's going to go forward that way, gentlemen, I wou~d !ike today to get a motion on the specifi~ h~ights and in areas where we think those Specific heights should be, okay? We'll open the meeting .... Mr. Deuts~h... please. Mr. Chairman, members of the Board, Steven Deutsch with Quantum Associates. Thank you for allowing me the time to speak before you. Quantum Associates requests that you please consider adding Quantum Corporate Park to the referendum height restriction. Basically, it really doesn't come down to much more than the word competition. And that's our competition. Not only Quantum's competition but the City of Boy, ton Beach's competition. If the City wants as one of - 6 - MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Walshak: Deutsch: Walshak: Deutsch: it's long term goals to increase the tax base, we've got to be able to go out there and compete against other cities and other corporate parks. As an example, I'll point to the Arvida Park of Commerce which as you all know, if a beautiful development. That particular park has an 85' height restric- tion in some areas and a 50' height restriction in other areas. The 50' height restriction, as you are well aware, allows four complete stories, and an 85' height restriction allows eight full stories. We've got some great property here at Quantum, within the city, and some terrific 1-95 frontage. We would respectfully request that the 1-95 interchange property, that we be allowed to go up to ten stories to attract some major hotel operators and for the balance of %he park to request an eight story height limitation. We feel that the city still has the protection of site plan approval aside from our own design standards that the City has approved within the corporate park itself. But more importantly, I go back to that word com- petition. If the City hopes to attract national tenants who have a desire to build first class b~ildings~ signature buildings, with their names on them., I'm talking about insurance companies and banks~ We have to be able to go out ~he~e and compete against some of these other c~ties. ~'11 keep it brief. Again, we respectfully request that you please conside~ Quantum Corporate Park in your refeiendum!, i'd! be happy to answer any other questions. More importantly, we would be happy andimost pleased with your authorization, to ~o ahe~ and prepare an analysis in the tr~-coun~ area, of our competition. To show you some of the other products and what they have d~ne. Mr. Deutsch, you are specifically suggesting some height limits. Yes sir. Fifty foot on what, the outside perimeter? No sir. I was asking for ten stories at the interchange an~ eight stories - 7 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Richter: throughout the balance of the park. Again, that's just something that we've come up with on a quick thumbnail sketch, as what our competition has, and again feel that because the City still retains site plan approval that you're not giving us carte blanche to just allow any kind of develop- ment in there. It goes without saying that we have some very high prices in Quantum Park compared with some of the other deve- lopments and we need that extra density. Again, the long term benefit to the City would be an enhanced tax base. We feel that with that terrific property and this great City, we can really go out there and go head to head with some of these other more aggressive cities. Mr. Deutsch, I agree with what you're saying and I'm familiar with the Arvida Park of Commerce. I also feel that to a degree with our push toward the downtown redevelopment and going into some height restrictions in this area or raising the height limitation is also going to create a competition, friendly though I hope, bet- ween Quantum Park and the downtown redeve- lopment. I have no problem in specific areas in recommending the same for the Quantum Park area. I do feel that any material like surveys of the competition (inaudible) talk about. Certainly it's going to be beneficial and enlightening to us and the City Commission and to people in Boynton Beach in general. I think perhaps if that can be done, be presented, also at public hearing, it Woutd be a good thing for the voters to help decide what they want when this referendum comes up. It may also help us, and especially the Commission, when we want to formulate the language to go into that referendum. So keeping that all in mind I feel that okay, there's going to be some competition bet- ween developing in ~he downtown and what you've ~ust requested. But I feel that good competition is. helpful. Hopefully it will bel friendly so that we can all go for the highest and best use and improve our tax bas~. - 8 - MIN~ES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Deutsch: Walshak: Annunziato: Walshak: Deutsch: Members: Holiday: Thank you and again, we would be most happy to proceed with that analysis and have it ready at your discretion. I think, ~ir. Deutsch, we as a Planning and zoning Board are not blessed with enough time to really get an analysis from you, to let you do an analysis, and bring it back to us. That's why we had to call this meeting today. Our Planning Dept. is getting ready to package the Comprehensive plan or the elements that we have finished, the Comprehensive Plan, to the Cit~ Commission probably within the next week. And I understand Carmen ... Hopefully they're going to go out tomorrow to the Commissioners. We don't have a lot of time. However, I think we will consider your request. As unorthodox as it may be, our Vice President of Sales and Marketing, John Holiday, just arrived. He can elaborate a little bit more than I could on some of our competition. It will be brief .... Go ahead .... certainly .... I think part of the consideration is that the City of Boynton Beach is trying to establish itself as a viable business com- munity. If you look at some of the coun- terparts to the south that have obviously had a head start partly because of the way things have developed down here. Examples are, say in the Ft. Lauderdale area, they go as high as ten stories and in some cases with certain setback requirement changes you can go up to 150 feet. I think the market that the City of Boynton Beach has indicated it is trying to attract, the national type of quality tenant, comes out of an area in the Northeast that a certain signature type of building is something that they are used to and they are comfor- table with as far as a corporate image is concerned. Some of the lower profile buildings and height restrictions are uncommon to their areas and it's not - 9 - MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Walshak: something that they're necessarily comfor- table with. The ability for them to at least have the flexibility to be a part of a vertical type of structure, it you look at say the Cypress Creek area, some of the major tenants have gone into those buildings down there, Unisys, Burroughs, Multivest. The reasons that they have gone into that area are partly because of rental concessions and the general market itself but those buildings down there are defini- tely signature type of buildings that are conducive to that type of tenant's image. I thi~k that the Boynton Beach area shouldn't place itself in a secondary posi- tion. I think that it deserves just as much consideration as those areasr especially with the consideration of north- ward ~rowth and at least allowing that kind of flexibility in the latitude for that kind of consideration is Something that is important to their impressions, anyway, of what the City of Boy,ton Beach can repre- sent to.them in ~he long.term. I don't think a downtown Miami or Ft. Lauderdale environment is What we are talking about. There you've got unlimited height restric- tions. 'I ~hi~k what y~u!!re really looking at are the stronq suburban markets, much like a Glades Rd. or Cypress Creek Rd. or the areas up around the Palm Beach International Airport, where you do have the higher elevation buildings. And I'm really referring more to the office tenancy than I am bo manufacturing. They generally will occur in a one t~o ~W0 story building. But I think office is s~mething that lends itself wel~ to the area because of the employment base, y~u stlii1 ~ave your tax base coming out of t~at ~ype of structure and I think ~hat you ~ili also find the employment levels are mach higher in office environments than they a~e in some of the warehousing and manufacturing areas. Have either of the two of you, or do you know, have you had any requests, your com- pany, say requests from folks outside of the market that hey, we would be interested in coming in to Boynton. Beach if you could build us a six, eight or ten story hotel? - 10 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Holiday: Walshak: Holiday: Walshak: Holiday: Deutsch: Holiday: Walshak: Annunziato: Walshak: Yes, hotel specifically, at the risk of shooting myself in the foot, we had a deve- loper that came to ~s with an elevation drawn for one of our 95 potential at the interchange corner sites that was I think a ten story structure that he envisioned as being the type of building that he would want to put on that kind of location. We have talked with, I would say, a minimum of ten major national development companies that do speculative development at that height and the height restriction was always something that was brought up at the initial discus!sion, the 45 feet. They can always work with it but it wasn't their first choice ~nd may possibly lead them to go to another location where they didn't have to deal with a three to four story building when they could have the latitude to do a six or seven story building that was appropriate, based on their needs. Really from the standpoint of building construction what's the minimum distance per floor, in commercial buildings. Twelve feet? Distance between floors? Yes. The minimum I would say is probably ten feet because you want a finished ceiling height in a building of no less than eight and a half. Some buildings are at eight feet. You've got the air handler equipment that has to go between the ceiling, the finished ceiling and the deck and I think if you look at (inaudible word). Plus we had to account for the elevator and roof structures, A/C .... Yeah. Carmen, is that about right, ten or twelve feet or... (inaudible word) How about with residential? - 11 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Annunziato: Holiday: Walshak: Annunziato: Residential? (inaudible) A peculiar need would be for say like a hospital, where you've really got a city within a building. And they're twelve feet. Standard office construction, ten feet. A class A office building would charac- teristically have a nine foot finished ceiling inside the office space and that gives you approximately one foot which can be accommodated with the equipment that you're going to be dealing with. The dif- ference in residential obviously is that you don't have anything above the second deck unless you're doing a separate floor, and you've got to be able to (inaudible). When I say residential I'm talking apart- ment type, apartment style residential. Mr. Chairman, I have a question. In your (inaudible word), have you tried to eva- luate the impact of such a dramatic change on the envelope of restrictions that are imposed by the development order? Utilities~ roads, things like that. I mean there is mot an open ended book that you can build .... Deutsch: Annunziato: Holiday: Annunziato: We understand that and if I remember correctly, I think the DRI approves upwards of 6 or 7 million square feet of develop- ment or something like that. The point is well taken. The reality of it, when you're dealing with 560 acres there's no way that the entire Park could be built eight stories and up. But there are certain instances along, again, the interchange area and some of the office sites, that we would like at least the opportunity to go out there and offer this to prospective tenants. Would you say the more critical locations then are basically the 22nd Ave. corridor? And 1-95. Well, that's the corridor still, the 22nd Ave. corridor, in relation to 1-95 and .... - 12 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Deutsch: Annunziato: Deutsch: Holiday: Blanchette: Deutsch: Yes... but I don't want to restrict the northern.., the office lots north of 22nd Ave. either. On the 1-95 corridor. No even within the Park itself. Yeah. Again, we have to see how the 22nd Ave. corridor builds out because we've got, as you will recall, a lot of commercial space along there and we might want to emphasize some height toward the Park area to the north there. I think it may afford some nice views. It goes with the topography of the area. You've got along High Ridge Rd., you're upwards of 32 feet and you get down into the lake area and you're down to 12, 13, 14 foot range. So as an average height within the area it's not something that's going to (inaudible word). As a matter of fact, a four story building will not even be visible. This is the ~igh Ridge Rd./I-95 area, because of the tree line and the .... (Tape turned over) ...all that whole area, and would it be possible that you would know where these buildings will probably be going? You wouldn't have to have the exact building on that location, but you're talking about building the higher buildings on the corri- dor and specifically north of 22nd. When I go to Lake Buena vista I never get the feeling that those buildings are very tall. But they are. They're all hotels and they are high, but you don't realize the height of them because of the topography and the layout, the way it's landscaped. You don't get the feeling that if you put them down here on the beach, they would look terrible. But where they are in that loca- tion, they're not offensive. I think what we're going to do in concert with that would be to prepare some pho- tographs of some of the products we are talking about, which when you look at the areas John referred to, the Cypress Creek area, the Glades Rd. area. Again, those - 13 MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Walshak: structures, most of them are six to seven... I think, Mr. Deutsch, that anything that you can bring in to the Council, okay, when the Council addresses this in public hearing, any visual aid that you can give them will make probably from the standpoint of, from a selling standpoint would be advantageous to you and it would also give the City Commission something visual to look at. So I suggest that, those are darn good ideas. ~ere today we don't have the latitude. We've got to make a recommen- dation on some of these specific heights today so that we can get into the package that's going to be presented through the Plan Review Process. Blanchette: Deutsch: Blanchette: Deutsch: Blanchette: Collins: But to sell these things to people who could care less about how functional a building is. They want to know what the aesthetics are going to be. Well we had planned a slide presentation because we realize that although we may be able to provide the Council with pho- tographs, the public is not necessarily going to understand the impact and the aesthetic quality of these things so we intend, hopefully .... I feel that if I give you a certain height, I don't want all the buildings at that height. Of course not. I mean, theyishould be staggered. If we get a hundre~ foot building here we should have an eighgy or a seventy .... and I realize thatlwould happen...but not a complete corridor of the same height buildings. They're not all going to look alike anywayS. (Inaudible word)...what is the City's posi- tion, what's the policy on impact, for example we're talking about impact on roads and what's the City's policy on that? - 14 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Annunziato: Walshak: Annunziato: Collins: Annunziato: The City's policy right now is for traffic is level of service C with level of service D peak season peak hour. Now, last fall the voters in Palm Beach County approved a referendum issue which set the level of service at sea, with the opportunity for exceptions to level of service C for areas within coastal cities. We have not antici- pated in the Comprehensive Plan the impact of an increase in intensity for this area or for that matter, for the areas east of the F.E.C. But we know which roads were already going to be at variance with that regulation when it's adopted. (Inaudible words)...We have anticipated level of services up to the maximum on the DRI, right? That's not... I under...yes that's true. But in reaction to Mr Collins' question, you still are not going to be able to exceed.., if in fact we are allowed...granted an exceptionw I don't know if that exception is going to run to 22nd Ave. My recollection is we did not go to level of service D on 22nd Ave., which would have required us to, an the context of that referendum issue, to seek an excep- tion. If there is an intensification, there should not be for if there is impact beyond those, then that could also put us in a situation where we'd be at odds with the County .... The reason why I asked is at what point does the developer himself get involved in the system if, say for example, you put something there that you know is going to have an impact .... In this instance the developer gets involved since the day we issue the deve- lopment order in fact they've expended several million dollars for road improve- ments based on that envelope of impact that he agreed that, that he acknowledged~ the public acknowledged and he immitigated. Walshak: Any further questions to these gentlemen? - 15 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Deutsch: Walshak: Clark: Blanchette: Clark: Again, we thank you Mr. Chairman and mem- bers of the Board for this opportunity. We feel, again, that it would make a tremen- dous statement on behalf of the City to go forward with this. We're going to make a decision here in a little bit so .... Is there anybody else in the audience who would like to speak on the height referendum? Mrs. Clark, please .... state your name and address for the record please. My name is Ilene Clark. I live at 11 Colonial Club Drive. 11 Colonial Club Drive, Boynton Beach. I'm just thinking as a private citizen listening to you, and the question is coming to my mind, what do I want for Boynton Beach? Why did I move to Boynton Beach? And I can tell you my reac- tion is I don't want another Ft. Lauderdale. I don't want another Palmetto Park Rd. or Cypress whatever road that is. And as a citizen of Boynton Beach I don't really want a community that is owned by industry. I would rather industry be second to what we the people in the com- munity want. I don't understand why, you know, tax base and all that. I understand we have to do something with downtown because it's dying. That I can understand. And I can understand and see something hap- pening different there. But personally I hope Boynton Beach isn't going to get to the point where we are going to become another Ft. Lauderdale. That's all I have to say. I have to trust you guys to see that that doesn't happen. I'm siding with you. I wouldn't want to live in Ft. Lauderdale and I wouldn't want to see Boynton Beach become one either. No way... And I'm thinking of a really neat community in Ohio. I moved here from Ohio. It's called Beachwood, Ohio. And it's about three miles from Shaker Heights, Ohio, where I lived. And they've done a fabulous job in terms of attracting industry. They have commercial parks that are beautiful. They have a marvelous tax - 16 MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Richter: Clark: base and they didn't have to reach for the sky to do it. So I hope you will be very careful that you don't let the character of Boynton Beach be changed. Mrs. Clark, I agree with you. We are trying to do our best to control the growth. But there is going to be growth and we need to provide jobs for people that are moving into this City. The more people that move an the more they participate in the tax base. The same way with the industry. The industry and the offices will pay for that.., and if we can control the industry to make it a beautiful industry such as Motorola and the others that are here, along with some office, insurance company employers, a lot of white collar good paying jobs. These things are all going to enhance the beauty of this community. If it's done properly. And I'm thinking of Beachwood, Ohio, which you might want to look into, because when you say Ft. Lauderdale or Palmetto Park Rd., that turns me right off .... I don't want to live in that... Collins: One of the things that was mentioned, when he was talking, it struck me in my mind, is that each year we put out, graduate, a large number of kids from our high school within the City of Boynton Beach. They end up going to college and what happens is we lose over half of those kids to other cities because we do not offer the kinds of things that they go off to college to become an Boynton. And to give you a classic example I'm a product of that situation myself, but I chose to come back and actively get involved. I think that's another thing that from my perspective, I kind of look at it as well. But your point is very well taken and I agree with you. But I would also like to see some of our young people who do go to public schools here, who do graduate and who do go off to college, come back and help share in the community. Right now we're losing quite a 17 MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Clark: Collins: Clark: Collin: Walshak: Clark: Walshak: Clark: Walshak: bit of them. I just see it every day and I think if we had some things to offer those youngsters when they do graduate and come back, I think we will be able to keep alot of them, attract alot of them here. But your point is very well taken. I understand what you're saying was in the school business, but a universal problem. because I that's also I agree. When kids go off to college, most of them don't come back to the community. I agree. Mrs. Clark, in Beachwood, Ohio, the average home in that community would be, in your estimation, what would the value of that home be? Now? Yeah. Well~ right now the average would probably be $150,000. But a few years ago it was much less than that. Yeah. Well I have never seen a study on this and I don't know if Carmen has it on the tip of his tongue, but I doubt very seriously if the average home in Boynton Beach would come up to that standard. And that's the problem. We've got alot of older communities, and you know the com- munities. The homes that are worth today, at today's market, say are appraised at $50,000, $60,000, $70,000. You take the Homestead Exemption off of those homes and the taxes they are paying are minimal. We don't have a lot of room to build single family homes to bring that income up to carry the tax burden that we have in this City. So we've got to look at other places to develop that tax base. The area where we can is in the Quantum Park for instance. It's going to produce a tremendous amount of revenue, tax base revenue, ad valorem tax - 18 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 for this community. I personally do not live in Ft. Lauderdale myself. I love this City and I would love to live here for a long, long time. I for one wouldn't do anything to'hurt this City. But I think there are specific areas in this City where these problems can be addressed. They can be addressed aesthetically and to blend in. What I'm saying is they can be done with taste and class. Clark: Walshak: Clark: Walshak: Clark: Walshak: Clark: Selectively. Yes. I don't think any of us wants to hurt the City. I mean that's just taken for granted. But sometimes we've got to take the emo- tionalism out of .... because it's an emo- tional topic and when you're done speaking, when everyone's done speaking I want to talk about this article that's in the Palm Beach Post, where they gi~e you an edi- torial opinion and I've never seen an edi- torial writer from the Palm Beach Post attend a Planning meeting in this City. So it's an opinion based on what? What it does, it brings emotionalism into an issue where emotionalism should not be the prime mover. Well I think you're going to be emotional depending on where you live. Yeah. But I think it can be done with a lot of thinking and a lot of planning and it can be done with taste, dignity and style. And I think if we get a combination or a blend of that nature, we're going to have a much better City. I personally can only speak as a lay per- son. And I can tell you that of all the people I've talked to, most people feel very secure with the height restriction. This is the priuate citizen. This is how they feel. Thank you. - 19 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Walshak: Annunziato: Walshak: Anderson: Thank you, Mrs. Clark. Mr. Anderson asked to be next. I don't have any cards but I'm just taking them as they raise their hands. Carmen, don't forget the cards next time will you? I'm taking notes .... Then he blames it on me and I blame it on you. My name is Owen Anderson, Executive Vice President of the Greater Beynton Beach Chamber of Commerce. Let me for a minute speak of my historical background. When I came to this City, there was an ordinance on your books. That ordinance set a 45 ft. height limitation. It's a four story limi- tation and it set certain things that could be granted exception to. There was also a provision that the City Council at that time for good and valid reason could give exceptions to the height limitation that are (inaudible word) and on the books, about ten years before it was changed. During the ten years three exceptions were granted. One, to Bethesda ~ospital because of the distance they needed between floors to put their pipes for oxygen, air conditioning.., one was for a church steeple and the third was for something that they felt they needed, their building. The hospital and the church utilized them. Motorola did not need it therefore did not use it. Shortly after I came, Councilman DeLong, who was leaving the Commission after a number of years of service felt that he could not trust succeeding Councils, Commissions, to act sensibly on the height limitation. Therefore, the Charter Amendment. Joe did a good job beating the drums. He sca~ed many people...the position that they were afraid that if they didn't put it as a Charter change there would be Ft. Lauderdale's ca~yons of concrete. May I remind you that without (inaudible word) three exceptions in ten years, all of which people agreed to. The other thing I want to say is the Chamber at that point stood against the Charter change, not because we wanted unli- - 20 - MINUTES BOYNTON Walshak: Blanchette: Walshak: Anderson: Walshak: Zibelli: PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 mited height but our attitude was the Commission was elected to serve and run the City and to set those policies. To make those exceptions. That was good insurance that if something came up that would be helpful for the community, possibly it could be done. So that's the Chamber's position. When you all as a group talked about unlimited h~ight for the removal of height restriction in the entire coastal area I'm sure the Chamber would not support that. The Downtown Development Committee supports the idea of some height restric- tion going up in that area. There are pro- bably some other selected spots, most of these would never act as a barrier (inaudible words) That wi~ll be the posi- tion, I am sure, the Chamber will take. I appreciate that Mr. Anderson. There were actually four in the last ten years. Macy's got one too. Macy's has a height exception rule .... .... after the Charter Amendment... Yeah, that would have been a fourth one. .... on the list of exceptions. Yeah. I agree with you, Mr. Anderson, and I think I'm going, I think I feel pro- bably the same way that the Chamber of Commerce does. One of the reasons I called this meeting today before the hysteria starts and gets fervent and I think maybe we can nip it in the bud. Ah...the Coastal Management Area was placed in there because of residential, okay? And we'll explain this once we get done listening to public audience, but that's one of the reasons we wanted to have this meeting today, to make it perfectly clear and to let everybody know where we were coming from. Mrs. Zibelli? Dee Zibelli, 440 Ocean Parkway, Boynton Beach. That 1-95 was rough coming here... Are we proud of our downtown? I really can't say that there's too many people who can say yes, that they're really proud of - 21 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 the downtown, the way that it stands today, with in mind the potential of what it could De. You know my position. I feel that there's so much that we could do and we need the (inaudible word) of properties in order to do it and we need someone with money, as you say, an insurance company with office buildings, etc., to do it. I don't think that would have any effect on the residential areas of the City. The people also must remember that they do come before public audience when it's come to the planning and zoning stage a~d when it comes to the Commission stage. So they will be able to see the renderings and know exactly what is going on. I would like to add one thing, that it you have not discussed it as of yet, since I do live in the North end and I see what a wonderful job that Quantum is doing, I would like to see their height restriction lifted higher than 45 ft., because I think they can do a marvelous job out there with that. And that's my position. Walshak: Thank you Mrs. zibelli. Is there anybody else in the audience who would like to address this subject? Gentlemen of the Board, I have the feeling that with the addition of Quantum, we have three areas that we're looking at. And I refer back to the Palm Beach Post article of April 17th, Monday, on "Limit Those High Rises, Moderation Key as Boynton Decides New Policy." And i~ the article it comes off with high buildings create density ... ah...I'll read it... "Most of the coastal Boynton Beach should be ruled out as well because of density of development it would create." I'm standing before you here and telling you right now that density is not created by the height of the building. The density is created by the Comprehensive Land Use Plan. The density is taken from the L.O.S., level of service. That's where it starts. L.O.~S., density, then what do we need in terms of height to comfortably achieve that density? So this is .... the Palm Beach Post is kind of bass-acwards on this one. And it also says "To begin with - 22 - MINUTES BOYNTON PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 the Commission should rule out height increases West of 1-95." That doesn't take into consideration Mr. Deutsch's request today and I personally feel that is an area where we can give that particular developer some consideration. There's another state- ment in this article that says, "The further such areas are from residential areas, the better." One of the reasons we are requesting in the Coastal Management Area is so that we can get more residential into the area, and take some of that com- mercial out of there, and push it into the downtown area where it belongs. You create the density up there for people who are g~oing to use the downtown area. You're going to supply the demand for the downtown a~rea. So I think we've got three areas now to look at. We've recommended through the Comprehensive Plan that we create an SE category North of the Boynton Canal which would... East of .... I think East of Federal 1, where SE, SE being the district and SE would accommodate 20 units per acre. Now... if you'r~ using .... and I thought this was a pretty good idea, what Mr. Richter said about his theory about deve- loping the stories...if we use the prin- ciple that four units per floor and a maximum density of 20, that would dictate that the building can't be any taller than five stories. No use put'ting a sixth story on there unless you're going to go to three units per floor, which Es kind of obsurd. To put them back to back ~o that utility runs and everything are convenient. So using that rule of thumb I think that the highest possible suggestion we could make in the Coastal Management Area, which Ks only on the North end oX town. It has nothing to do with below the canal, the SE category. They had originally talked about putting some SE down in. t~e South end. We've eliminated that. We've only put the SE on the North end of town. Now I think that should be addressed~ 20 units per acre. I don't think we have any other decision to make other than the fact that 20 units per acre, we could probably get away with 20 units per acre in a five story building. Five stories, that's why I asked - 23 - MINUTES - P~LANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Mr. Annunziato and the builder before whether or not ten ft. per floor would accommodate residential too. So you're talking about 50 ft., and Carmen do you need something on top of the roof, I would think... Annunziato: Walshak: Annunziato: Walshak: Cheney: Walshak: Cheney: Walshak: Cheney: Walshak: Cheney: Walshak: Yeah, you need another ten feet for eleva- tors and... ...elevators and things of that nature. It is currently permitted, in the story height, as a height the City Commission. addition to exception, by Okay. If we were to recommend 50 ft., plus the exception heights, which would bring it up no taller than 60 ft. Pardon me? ...five stories... That's what we're talking about. We're talking about five stories. Please .... come up... so you can give us .... so every- body can... Just trying to avoid the process .... every building is going to have an elevator...and avoid the process of going to the Commission for a variance. If you say five stories, with the appropriate appurtenances on the roof, then it's according to the rate (inaudible word) of 12 ft. or 10 ft., you haven't got to come back for a variance. Okay. Say five stories, instead of 50 feet. Your point is well taken. And if you've got twelve stories of office space you haven't got to worry about it. (Inaudible words) Thank you. That point is well taken. So, I would suggest, in the SH category, we suggest five stories with the appropriate - 24 MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Annunziato: Walshak: Richter: height .... the elevator .... ~ appurtenances .... what do you call that? Mechanical equipment. Mechanical equipmento..in that area. Now in the downtown area, we're talking about going to 40 units, the density of 40 units per acre. Mr. Richter, Mr. Richter came back with that same philosophy that four units per floor, ten stories, for a hundred feet plus the elevator mechanical equipment which would be a maximum height of 110 ft. in the downtown area. (Tape turned over) If we're going to recommend that we set a maximum height limit in Quantum Park and let the City Commission through public audience work it out anything up to that... you know.., eight stories.., they want eight stories on the perimeter, they use eight stories. But they could do it on maximum height...we're giving them at least the suggestion on maximum height. Your feelings please? Mr. Richter? Well, you already know my feelings. At our last meeting we discussed this and it was the SH category being on the North end, go five stories and on a 20 units per acre density. Because we feel the level of ser- vice will not be hurt that much up on that end of the City. Walshak: Richter: Well, the level of service could accom- modate that... Yeah... can accommodate that .... at pre- sent. In the Downtown District, of course, it's the intensity should be increased with the density and be allowed in the CBD on approved basis and subject to code.., to go as high as...we're recommending as high as ten stories. I feel that if we're going to extend it to the 1-95 to Congress, 22nd Ave. category in Quantum Park, then we should determine now ~hat height or inten- sity we wish to allow or recommend for that area for the Council's consideration. I feel that it's up to the Council, when they put this on the referendum, to form how the - 25 MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Walshak: Collins: Annunziato: Walshak: Deutsch: Walshak: Deutsch: referendum is stated to the people. I think the more information we can get out to the people, so that they can read about it and understand the actual way that it's intended. I don't think there's any room for panic. I feel that we can go ahead and move and accommodate these kinds of struc- tures and increase the tax base and enhance the beauty of this City, especially the rehabilitation of the downtown and the Northend area. Mr. Collins? I have one question we should ask Carmen, whether or not...in terms of support faci- lities for a ten story building, are we set up, the level of service for the Fire Dept., those types of things? I know you can put sprinkler systems and so forth, but would we be set up or would that cause a problem in terms of, you know, in terms of having to get extra equipment to take care of that in the event that you have a problem. I think that's going to be part of the policy debate that will occur before the City Commission. At this point the answer... I can't answer your question. But that will certainly have to become part of the discussion. We don't have a hook and ladder truck in this town. Mr. Deutsch? Can I just clarify one point that I made earlier? Sure. In reference to to Mr. Richter's question and by virtue of some of the comments coming from the public. We are not looking for just unlimited cart? blanche height, lifting of the restriCtmons throughout all of Quantum Park. The research and develop- ment, the light industrial properties, really there is no need to go beyond 45 ft. We're primarily focusing on the interchange, the hotel and office structure - 26 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Walshak: Deutsch: Walshak: Deutsch: Walshak: ah, lots. Another point that may give some comfort to the City, we would be willing to put some.., and again, I have no idea what that cap may be, but some outside cap on square footage. Mr. Annunziato, we're already set with the development order but if you want to establish some kind of pat- tern to avoid the problem that was raised earlier about just a steady stream of eight to ten story buildings, we would be more than happy to discuss something like that. I think your discussion, I think your discussion on those lines will come in front of the City Commission ... Okay. And you'd better be prepared to address those problems at that point in time. I think it's our concern at this point to make a recommendation on a maximum height for Quantum Park. It's up to you and finally the City Commission to decide what's beneficial for the City. But I think we've done our job if we recommend a maximum height level in your project. Okay, thank you again. Yes, sir. Collins: Annunziato: Carmen, you answered my question.., that would be the only thing...based on... I feel pretty much the same in terms of what we've been discussing, but my concern is whan impact it would have on the City down the road. You know, you're looking at more dollars and cents .... There will be an impact. There may be an impact in things that have to be built just to provide the services to higher density, but we don't know at this point.., we can't measure, I can't give you a yardstick in saying well, you know it will cost so much money. We have to buy this or we have to build those lanes and things like that. But there will be an impact. - 27 - MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Walshak: Annunziato: Walshak: Annunziato: Walshak: Cheney: Walshak: Cheney: Annunziato: Walshak: Cheney: Walshak: Blanchette: Yeah. And Carmen, a lot of those problems, a lot of those problems that these situations would create would be addressed through the impact fees up front. Absolutely. I think it would be the responsibility of the developer who inten- sified to mitigate these costs if possible. I'd love to see the first guy that came in to build a ten story building...we bump him for a fire truck .... that will reach ten stories. I think there's one budgeted this year. There is. It's a half a million bucks or something. In the first place they're building a fire station to accommodate (inaudible words)... an the second place, with the Commission to agree on how we're going to buy it and (inaudible words).., over a five or ten year period. (Inaudible words) How would you like to see them take some- body that comes an and builds one of these ten story buildings and we bump them for a fire truck, the cost of a fire truck. Wouldn't that be lovely! (laughter) That would be lovely, but this isn't Mickey Mouse Land! (laughter) In fact that might be one of the more lesser costs. Yes, I understand that. Utilities are the ones that we're going to have to study once we .... Mr. Blanchette? You mentioned, they're building a fire station...would that be one out West? If that was the case then that's where you would house the large truck and that's where you would want to build these things and not have them down on the South end of town. 28 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20~ 1989 Richter: Blanchette: Walshak: Blanchette: Walshak: Blanchette: Walshak: Blanchette: Obviously you are going to cover the whole City. Yeah, but the Fire Dept. would like (inaudible word)...but getting back to the height limitations, I've thought a great deal about it. It's very difficult to even imagine, describe a building, the size of a building and the height of a building without some scale of what the next building is going to look like. I wasn't even concerned with Quantum Park until they brought it up today. I was thinking more of the downtown area and the coastal regions. But Quantum Park, I could go with a hundred feet in a limited area, within the interchaRge as long as the rest of the Park is going to be relatively low profile. The downtown area, I could go with 100 ft. at least one structure, say some developer comes in with a revolving restaurant. Maybe that would be the focal point of downtown at that point and the only struc- ture at that height where the rest of the structures would be (inaudible word) plus their appurtenances. I think the suggestion was made that we give the City Commission maximum heights... That's what I'm giving you. And let them chew on it. And I'm giving you two maximums, one here and one down here and in the coastal region I think five stories .... Okay, when we say coastal region we've got to be more specific and say the SH cate- gory which is on the North end of town, so that ...we're going to have it .... the City Commission is going to have their hands full with peopl~ in that area. Don't bring also the people of the South end of the Coastal Management Area in, you know what I mean? As long as they know it's in the SH area. - 29 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Walshak: Blanchette: Walshak: Richter: Walshak: Richter: Walshak: Richter: Collins: Walshak: Yeah. There's only one (inaudible words).., and that's up there. It wouldn't be, in other words, everything... South of there, this is parking...(inaudible words), as far as I'm concerned. I think these changes will be necessary. Those restrictions were put on years ago and a tax base which we men- tioned, to bring that up to anywhere near where we can~_plan the City, with all the services. I think we have to change it and I think according to what I can ima- gine in this City, the average cost of a house, I would say is between $70,000 and $90,000. That's my guess. And we have a lot of higher prices to the South and a lot of lower prices to the North. Any further discussion? The Chair will accept a motion on heights to be passed along to the City Commission for their review process on the Comprehensive Review process. Mr. Chairman, I recommend, or I move that we recommend a five ft. or five story height limit in the SE category on the North end of town, based on twenty units per acre. In the central business district... I think we've identified that as the MX... ...in the MX district. Our maximum height would be ten stories. In the Quantum Park, 1-95, 22nd Ave. area, also a height, a maximum height of up to 100 units, excuse me, 100 ft., and... Are you going to call it ten stories or... Well let's put it ten stories. That's easier than... (inaudible word) and possibly eight stories in other designated office areas. Mr. Chairman, I second the motion. It has been moved and seconded that we send along to the City Commission for the - 30 MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Annunziato: Richter: Walshak: Annunziato: Walshak: Blanchette: Annunziato: Walshak: Annunziato: Walshak: Members: Walshak: Annunziato: Comprehensive Plan review process the following recommendation pertaining speci- fically to height. In the SH district, five stories, in the MX district ten stories, in the Quantum Park ten stories. Any discussion on the motion? There were two parts to Mr. Richter's com- ments on... ...ten stories in the 1-95, 22nd Ave .... Okay, I stand corrected. I don't take shorthand here folks so I stand corrected. Mr. Chairman? ...ten stories and eight stories.., let me finish tbs motion Carmen...eight stories in the in all other areas of Quantum Park. ...main office areas. In your discussion you talked about plus additional height for mechanical equip- ment. Did you want that included in the motion? Yes. Those number of stories plus additional height for mechanical equipment. As moved.., any discussion on the motion? Ail those in favor signify by saying aye .... Opposed... (silence) .... carried 4-0. Next, I had a request from, I think it was Mr. Ciklin on a piece of property. Somebody owns a piece of property here in Boynton Beach, out of town folks who missed our last public hearing. He would like to discuss it at this time. Come on up Mr. Ciklin. Mr. Chairman, while Mr. Ciklin's coming up, was it Mr. Collins who seconded that motion? MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Walshak: Collins: Walshak: Ciklin: Yes. Yes. Go ahead Al, I'll be listening. I (inaudible word). Mr. Chairman, members of the Board, we're not sure. We think we're in the right place. We know that the City Commission is going to have Comprehensive Plan hearings coming up and we read the adver- tisement and we have a request for them to consider. Before we feel reluctant to have them consider it without coming to you first and having you review this par- ticular piece of property which is fairly well known within the City. Just to orient you, this is Congress Ave. and the Holiday Inn, Catalina Center, Motorola, Quantum Park, zoned shopping center, the Boynton 8each Mall. The parcel that we're talking about is at the Southwest corner, and Northwest 22nd and Congress Ave. It's a piece of property, about ten acres that at one time was zoned .... was part of the entire PUD, the Congress Lakes PUD, and since has been sold to a company out of Nashua, New Hampshire, that I represent, called American Development. During the approval of the Gerilitus complex, tennis complex to the rear, there was some discussion of the American Development par- cel and it was assigned at that particular time, and American Development agreed, that it would be assigned 59 residential units. When they did that they made it clear that although they were accepting that assign- ment, they reall~ thought the best use for this particular piece of property, and the obvious use is f~r future commercial deve- lopment. And th~ reasons, by looking at the graphics, we think are obvious. The entire strip up'to N.W. 22nd along Congress is commercial. That's ail the red that you see here° Immediately across the street in the orange is planned indus%rial develop- ment, Motorola and Quantum. Katy-corne~, across the street is I think, a ~20 acre Savannah Square. N.W. 22md, which you know far more about than I do, is going to be - 32 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Walshak: Ciklin: Walshak: Ciklin: Walshak: Ciklin: (Voice): Ciklin: Walshak: Annunziato: Ciklin: Annunziato: one of the major East/West thoroughfares in the City with an 1-95 interchange. Improvements are scheduled for Miner Rd. which is further South. Boynton Beach Blvd. is also scheduled for some improve- ments. So, if you think it's appropriate, we weuld like to ask you to consider the American Development parcel to be included · n the Comprehensive Plan as commercial rather than residential. And again, we think the graphics speak for itself. Mr. McMurray is in the office...the reason he ts here is he obviously is interested because he represents the owners of the Catalina Center and the hotel and who are also joint venture partners in the Gerilit~s tennis center. What designation, Mr. Ciklin, are you asking for in commercial? The parcel .... C-l, C-2, C-3 or C-47 The parcel across the street in the Catalina Center is C-3. We would think that would be the appropriate designation. The piece that we're talking about, can you point it out? Yes. The piece is in grey. The red is existing commercial. This is N.W. 22nd. The orange is all industrial. Where is Congress? Congress is (inaudible). This is N.W. 22nd, 1-95, Boynton Beach Mall, Boynton Beach Blvd. And that's... Thank you very much. Carmen? Yeah. Could you bring that back please? Sure. The owner and I, we go back a long time on this property. And there's a real history to this property. It's important that you - 33 - MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Walshak: Annunziato: understand exactly what's being asked for and what has occurred in the past. It must have been seven or eight years ago now ... Riteco came in as part of an annexation... Riteco... Riteco Development Corp. (Inaudible words).., and they annexed and zoned as a PUD, this entire parcel, or some 1,180 units, is my recollection. It was called Congress Lakes planned unit development. Proposed for this development were.., units were allocated North of 22nd Ave. and South of 22nd Ave., with a master recreation facility located where we now have this vacant parcel, more or less, more or less, given the (inaudible word). Over the years, Riteco has sold off various parts of the property. First, my recollection is, first they sold property to Metro Development Corp. Metro Development, Mahogany Bay. The next sale of property actually resulted in Mr. Ciklin filing for the applicants, two rezoning requests. One, to create 25 acres of retail commer- cial in the red a~ea that was zoned resi- dential and two, to recreate the planning of development. They had it's district boundary changed for the remainder of the PUD. My recollection is that Metro (inaudible word) that application. Subsequent to that, Metro sold off the par- cel o~ land to P~ and~Pos~ developed it's land residentially, iklan .... correct me if I'm wrong. I'm recalling from memory all these things. No~.~ sometime early last summer we had th~i~eri~t~s project come to town and there we~ actually tw~ parts to that project. One, an office ~uilding which was in the Catalina~ Retail Center complex, within tke envelope of that com- mercial zone and %~of a r~uest to develop a part of t~e remaining p~perty. Now. At that time we had ~ %hi'fi... well seeing... at that point if t~e lahd?developed in such a way that .there w~s no~ ~oing to be a master recreational a~ea, because those areas, both Mahogany B~ and Post developed their properties ~i~h ~e~ own recreation. So what was agree~!~iu~o~w~ to take all the - 34 MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Walshak: Annunziato: Walshak: Annunziato: Walshak: Annunziato: Walshak: Annunziato: remaining units available to be developed in this area here and spread them across the land on a units per acre basis. It turned out to be something like.., gosh... I think there were eight units to an acre. Now. In order to make the Gerilitus pro- ject work, there was a magic number and the magic number was about 450. This property owner gave his density away. He gave this developability away. He acknowledged that and put it in writing and now he is asking to take back more intensity after he has given his developability away. We knew this was going to happen, frankly. But, the idea here, what is happening here is theyrve got the densit~ from the planning and development and now they're asking for more intensity on use of the land. And that~ I think, is how it turns out. If this property is put in a residential cate- gory, I mean in a commercial category, we, the City, could not chan~e the zoning. We could not implement th~ Comprehensive Plan because we would have to file a new planned unit development for t~is property and this property and this property and they would have t0 agree. So i ~n't think we could implement that change. Why would we have to do that? Because we would be creating a new planned unit development. Creating it where? Composed of this property, this property and this property. A planned unit develop- ment has a master plan approved for it and a legal description. Right. But they were sectioned off weren't they? This parcel here? This here? Yes. No. They're still in the planned unit development. MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Richter: Well how many (inaudible word) are in Posts Landing? Annunziato: ...are in the planned unit development. Walshak: Mahogany Bay... Annunziato: Post. Walshak: Post Landing and Gerilitis are all part of one planned unit development? Annunziato: Yes. And American Development. They are part of that planned unit development. In order to create this as commercial pro- perty, we would have to create a new planned unit development. We can't do that. I think this is a proper applica- tion that should be made on a twice yearly basis, on October 1 or April 1, where the applicant comes in with two requests for rezoning, one for commercial and one for residential~ and then address this issue as a plan change. Because we could not implement this change. Blanchette: When you mentioned it before you said that that American Development, that land was used, their square footage was used within the density of the whole planned unit development? In other words, what we're looking at is a grey area of nothing... right? Annunziato: Fifty nine units. Fifty nine units. Blanchette: Invisible. Annunziato: Fifty nine units. Walshak: In other words, their density was given to the Gerilitus tennis center. Annunziato: They gave away their intensity, willingly, on their own choice. They gave their intensity away. Blanchette: Which was 59 units? Annunziato: No, it was, it was about 100 units, more or less. They gave away a substantial portion ... - 36 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Blanchette: Annunziato: Blanchette: Ciklin: Walshak: Ciklin: Walshak: (Voice) Ciklin: Walshak: Ciklin: What's left? About 59 units. Fifty n~ne units. Mr. Chairman, can I help explain? Go ahead. I don't mean to but in here. Carmen said .... Why don't you set that up, set it up on the easel there so you don't have to .... That's interesting. I can see Mr. Blanchette's point. We've got a physical piece of property that's invisible .... ...somebodies got to pay taxes or they can't use it. That's an incredible situation. And they did give up some of the density .... They gave away .... Mr. Chairman there's no question about what happened here. When Gerilitus came in, Gerilitus needed so many units to survive economically. They had done a market study .... Right, I was here, Mr. Ciklin, for that, yes. Of course you were. And what happened was American... the staff said well, hey, guys, you don't have that many, because some of them are assigned to American Development. And we're not going to release those unless American Development releases those. American Development, in fact~ in writing said we will agree to shift that many units to the Gerilitus center and we acknowledge that we have 59 units left. We're not, and I guess I was part of this and I heard it, and that was that they didn't a~knowledge that, they still thought tha~i commercial was the highest and best use of this property but if they were stuck with residential, they acknowledged 59 was it. I guess this whole thing has i~ fact happened once before. That is ~s Mr. Annunziato said, that the Catalina iCenter and the hotel, in - 37 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Walshak: Ciklin: Annunziato: (Voice): Ciklin: fact was residential and it was a part of the PUD. And as a matter of fact, was one of the all time great battles that Carmen and I have had. Well then you're not friends. No, we are. Alan and I are friends. Good friends. ...and our application at that particular time was I guess, exactly what we're seeking today. That was, we suggested at that time to the Planning and Zoning Board and the City Commission that this piece of property was better suited for commercial development because of the Mall and this stuff across the street and we asked them one, to change the Comprehensive Plan and two, to remove it from the PUD and three, to give it a commercial zoning designa- tion. And they in fact agreed with us despite protests from staff and it's turned out to be a very nice thriving development in the City of Boynton Beach and a very fine hotel. So American Development is here now and we acknowledge, there's 59 residential units there. We acknowledge that we gave some to Gerilitis. What our suggestion is, is that.., what is the best, I guess the question is, what is the best land use at least in our opinion, for this piece of property? We think that's it's commercial because of everything around here and not residential. Can it be done? We think it can be done whether we're part of the Comprehensive Plan that gets amended now or Whether we file an application some time in the future on our own. We think it can be done. And the way it would be done would be that it would get a land use plan designation of commercial. We, if we were fortunate to get that, would then file an application for commercial zoning, that everybody would have to approve, and an amendment to the planned unit develop- ment to remove it from the planned unit 38 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Annunziato: development. Now if we were successful in one but not the others, then we would not succeed. But we think the process that we're here to ask you to do ~s exactly the same process that happened hsre. It's a public amendment to the Comprehensive Plan rather than a private one, but in my opi- nion, an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan either publicly or privately has the same result. Most jurisdictions, and I may be gathering that the City does it slightly differently here, but most juris- dictions when they gi~e you a Comprehensive Plan Designation, you auto- matically, do not automatically scurry in and rezone your property for you too. They say, well you have commercial designation but you go ahead when you're ready and you have a plan for it. And that's what we're Seeking. We're not asking for the zoning obviously, because we can't. Wheat we~r~ asking for ls the ability to approach you once the Comprehensive Plan wo~ld be adopted to ask you for the zoning to work our appropriate conditions to meet your~traffic perfor- mance standards, which are ~oiag to be essential, to come up with a phasing plan if necessary. But most importantly, to develop this site i~ what we think is an obvious and appropriate manner of commer- cial. It woul~ be a sh~U~e in my opinion, to have the fact that we're strapped by this PUD, prevent American Development from allowing this to gO commercial, and strapping it with wkat ~e think is now, because of this area ~r~wing up, a major commercial intersecti~n~ N.W. ~2nd...(tape turned over)... There's one more comment that I have to make. What happened on that property is not exactly what happened on the Catalina Center property. Catalina forfeited 212 units with the property where they superimposed their commercial over the residentiaL. They did not double-dip. They took that acreage and the~ took the units that were assigned to that acreage and they disappeared from the planning and development. In this instance you're - 39 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, PLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Ciklin: Annunziato: Ciklin: Walshak: being asked to, what happened is you're being asked to give the density which was approved as PUD, Which might violate the PUD landuse intensities, and that has to be determined, and then secondly, double bonus it by giving it a commercial inten- sity. And the second comment I need to make is this. You need to implement your Comprehensive Plan within one year and that means bringing all...implementing ordinances into comformance with the Comprehensive Plan. The zoning map is an implementing element of the Comprehensive Plan. I believe we would have to imple- ment one year the zoning change as we have in the past. We agree with that. We don't make it sound as bad as Carmen does but we agree. We gave some of these units away. No question about it. And now we're asking to trade the 59 for commercial. How about maybe taking the units back? Making it a viable residential project. I guess the answer is that it's at a major commercial intersection. We also agreed that we would implement a zoning action on this at our expense within a year if that was required. We not trying to ... I'm not so much concerned, Mr. Ciklin, with what happened in the past or what Catalina did or what Mahogany Bay or Posts Landing did. I'm concerned with the future, the future Land Use Plan. Whether or not I feel, and I have a definite opi- nion about it. I think it's better in the commercial zoning category than residen- tial on the corner. You're looking at Motorola across the street, residential to the South and katy-corner, and 22nd which is going to become a major artery. I'm concerned with what is going to happen in the future with that piece of property. I 5hink I'd like to see it in a commercial designation, but, how do we do that Carmen, without .... - 40 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Annunziato: Walshak: Annunziato: Walshak: Annunziato: Walshak: Annunziato: Walshak: Annunziato: Walshak: Annunziato: Walshak: This is my recommendation, clearly and simply. I don't think we amend the Comprehensive Plan as a part of the future land use element. If we wanted to amend it, could we do it? I think you can do it but I don't think you could implement it. You would be forced into implementing it, forced to predetermine your outcome on a planned unit development. I think the proper way to do it is to have the applicant submit an application. Have him come in and implement the change, request the imple- mentation. Then, he can submit the appli- cation for a land use element (inaudible word) rezoned. And he can go back to the other three or four property owners that are involved to get them to go along with the rezoning to the PUD, because they would have to join in. What you're saying is if he doesn't do it we have to do it. Right. And I don't think we can. think we can do those things. I don't How long of a process is it? It takes nine months to amend the plan. The future Land Use Plan won't become effective, if it's adopted, until next June anyways...so we're talking... No, it would be adopted, the Plan has to be adopted in November, December, more or less November of this year. I thought it was June of 1990. No. As soon as we get it back from the State, in June we transmit, they've got 90 days, July, August, September. We have 60 days to adopt the Plan. October, November. Okay. His process couldn't really start until that's done, it's implemented... - 41 - MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Annunziato: Walshak: Blanchette: Annunziato: Blanchette: Walshak: I think he could start his process in October of this year. He~d get an answer by June of 1990. And I think that's the right way to do it. That's my recommendation. Discussion. Harold? (Inaudible word)...a zoning black hole because if the land had been ~sed once, you're talking about double use of the land again. Is there any way to correct that? Is there anyway to take back from what has been granted to the use of the other lands involved, so that this land could be useable again? I don't know how to do that. The owner of this land ga~e up his density. He said I'm happy with what you (inaudible word). He put it in writing. It would make a beautiful City park... H~ gave up his density as far as residen- tial is concerned. That's what I'm hearing from Mr. ciklino Annunziato: Walshak: Annunziato: Blanchette: Annunziato: Blanchette: Annunziato: Walshak: But there is an overall intensity of land that was placed on all of this property. I understand that. Eleven units per acre. Did you mention Riley in this? Yeah. They were the original owners and zoners .... No wonder we're in it. Well, I don't .... in part they're respon- sible. I think the development has a lot to do with it. That property is becoming more and more valuable strictly because of it's strategic location and strictly because of where it is. But I think it lends 42 - MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Annunziato: Blanchette: Annunziato: Blanchette: Annunziato: Walshak: Richter: itself .... that piece of property lends itself to a commercial zoning category. I think that needs to be debated at greater...in greater context .... in greater depth. At the time we have an application which clearly indicates all of the implications of that change. I think they need to provide that for us and I think they need to provide the request for land use zoning amendment change. Obviously 59 units on a parcel of land, eight acres, at a major intersection, something is wrong. But, you know, as Harold said, there's a black hole here. They had their ability to develop that property and they gave it away. Obviously with an eye to coming back a year later or whatever and doing whati's happening right now. I think they should come back in October, submit proper applications, sub- mit two rezoning req~'ests actually. One for the PUD and one for the commercial. Submit the laad use change. Give the City all the information it needs to determine what significant impacts ~re g~ing to be created. There will be significant impacts. I assure you, down the road. Because just at t~e Mall, with respect to the Mall, we figured three significant links. We're talking about 3,000 trips there. This is a very complicated issue. It needs direct attent{on. Was there ever a precedent like this before where the land... I mean that you've read about? I have never seen a situation where we've given double intensity to a land, where a person had intensity, gave it away and came back for more. Very unusual. Do you know of any .... I've never seen anything (inaudible word) before. ...oh...I'm sorry Danny. Go ahead. They're faced with a similar situation between Boca and Delray at the Polo Club - 43 - MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 property. The density in the Delray part was given to the part that's in Boca. Therefore they have agricultural land now in there next to the Delray Community Hospital, that cannot be used. Walshak: Ciklin: Mr. Ciklin, your approach to the problem is what. Explain it to me. Our approach to the problem is we believe the same approach as Mr. Annunziato's, but less complicated. We fully intend to pro- vide the City with everything they need, traffic studies, surveys, drainage reports, full blown review. At the time of the zoning approval, if we cannot con- vince the Planning and Zoning Board and the City Commission during the zoning pro- cess that this can withstand the impacts on the roads and every place else, then we believe we should be denied. The only thing we're doing is rather than waiting until October to then apply for a Comprehensive Plan ammen~dment, we're asking that the Plan ammendment be done now so that in No~ember or December, when the Plan's approved, we can then apply for the zoning change for total and complete scrutiny by you. If we can't convince you and if we can't meet your standards, we believe we should be den~ed. It just eli- minates all those months from the process. In fact, in my mind, the only real restriction is that you ca~not take any zoning action that's contrary to your Comprehensive Plan. That doesn't mean, and I think there's a bunch of cases that say, because it says commercial you have to give us commercial. I mean I think that's probably the fear. Because it says commercial you hRve to give us commercial. That's not the case. We have to meet your performance standards. And we're fully intending to do that. We're not trying to skirt one of your zoning requirements. We just believe it's better done at a zoning l~vel rather than a planning level and if we can get into the planning process now, do the zoning pro~ess in November or December, it's skill months and months and - 44 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Walshak: Ciklin: Walshak: Annunziato: Walshak: Annunziato: Walshak: months off. The only other thing is, and I don't want...Mr. Annunziato is tremen- dously correct. They willingly and knowingly gave up those 100 units to Gerilitus and... I know. I was here. I was here. I don't want it to sound like it was a sleazeball kind of thing. Well, we'll give them away and then we'll come back and say, how about some commercial? At that particular time it was stated, we'll give them away. If residential is what you think is appropriate here, we'll live with the 59 units but we want you to know that commercial is really where we're coming from and what we think is .... I remember those discussions. Carmen, the plan that he is suggesting makes sense to me unless, of course, it cannot work mechanically. I don't think it works mechanically because if it's denied...well first of all, if it's denied and you're stuck with Land Use Plan incompatibility .... That's no worse a situation than what he has right now. Right now there's no Land Use Plan incom- patibility. The land use is consistant with the zoning. Yes. If you want to put 59 units on that particular corner. Annunziauo: Walshak: Annunziato: Blanchette: Annunziato: But that's the problem that they have. Well it's a problem the City has too from the standpoint of developing our ground. I think that they need to come .... I told you my recommendation. Perhaps the only .... In fairness to the other property owners too. You know, in fairness to the - 45 - MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Walshak: AnnunZiato: Walshak: Blanchette: COllins: Richter: (inaudible word) property. Why don't... you know.., why don't we make his property commercial and come back with a rezoning application. We deny him and give him another .... .... (inaudible word) asking... But it's the same problem. You know, it's the same problem. Discussion .... Harold... No more .... Discussion? I've already discussed it. I really, I don't have an answer for it. As much as I understand his particular predicament, I don't want to see the City get caught in something where we end up setting precident over something that might cause problems later on down the line. I respect what Carmen is saying in terms of that. That could very well hap- pen. I don't know what they have planned in the future. I don't know how long they're going to need to...I don't know if they're ready to go or if they have things ready to go for that piece of property right now or...I don't know. But from a time standpoint, I can understand time is money. But I think from the City's stand- point, I think Carmen does not want to get involved in a situation where we might run into some problems later on down the line. I think that's basically what he's saying. He has no problem with it but he just wants the process to... and I know that what we're trying to do is to basically streamline that process. And I understanding exactly what we're in. But at this point I kind of have a tendency to agree with Carmen on it. Nat, I kind of support your viewpoint. I think we're left i~ purgatory with this and it's a feeling of ambivalence. We know it should be commercial because of the intensity and t!he intersection...but I feel it should be lieft up to him to follow the process Carmen ~has suggested. Because - 46 MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOyNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Collins: Walshak: Annunziato: I don't see how we can change the Comprehensive Plan to zone that C-3 right now without .... As much as I sympathize with you in terms of being able to streamline the process because basically that's what we're all (inaudible word). That's the way I feel about it. But I think in this ~nstance without setting a precident in terms of other situations there, I'm inclined to agree. Carmen? It would actually take him.., you think, nine months, if he came in tomorrow with his application. October 1. If he came in October 1 it would take him nine months. I don't think there's an issue here of these guys ready to turn dirt tomorrow. Walshak: Annunziato: Ciklin: Walshak: Ciklin: No. I doubt that very seriously. That would be the process. They would submit October 1. If it were to be approved, it would be June 1, 90, more or less. Mr. Chairman. I guess we see the planning process a little differently than Mr. Annunziato. Of course, he is the resident expert here in the City. The way we see the process is that a Plan is just that. It's the Plan. You say to yourself, now what's the best thing for the City of Boynton Beach. How do we want this area to develop in the future? My words exactly .... So...that's why I thought this would be easier. You know, I look at this and I say gee, N.W. 22nd, Turnpike interchange, Congress, Motorola, Boynton Beach Mall .... commercial. I mean it's easy. Now the hard part is knowing what you think ought to be there seems to be the easy part. The hard part for us and for you and the City Commission and for Mr. 47 - MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Walshak: Ciklin: Walshak: Ciklin: Walshak-. Ciklin: Walshak: Ciklin-. Annunziato is the implementation of the Plan. And what we anticipated was that if we were fortunate enough for you to agree with us here, our hard!part would begin by filing th~ z0ning application, the PUD amendment,, and then convincing you that what we wanted to put here met all your codes, me~iyour itraffic performance stan- dard and COuld ibe s~btracted from the PUD. HOw much ~ime, Mr. Ciklin, do you think you would save if your plan vs. what Mr. AnnunziatoI haS suggested? Well, if we, if we were fortunate enough to be included here and Carmen's right that December 1 there would be a new Comprehensive Plan that reflected commer- cial, we believe that uader the new City's streamlining philosophy we could be through into and out of the zoning process within 120 days after that. That would put you into April... April rather than... Which is still a year from now. I mean it's not exactly around the corner. Well then we're talking .... let's, let's not cut hairs here boys and girls, we've got Mr. Annunziato suggesting June 1 and you're suggesting April 1. So you've got a difference of two months. Exactly... That's not.., it doesn't seem to be a big deal. Are there any other advantages Mr. Ciklin, that you feel that setting that in planning now would help with, the zoning...where are you coming from? Well I think the only thing it does, it gives American Development the chance to focus on the actual development plans for the next so many months, and be thinking about what ought to go here and what their zoning plan...work on their site plan, work with staff.., it's that kind of a time saving. - 48 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Walshak: Ail things being equal, I don't feel that they would have any problem coming through on that. I don't think so. I think that piece of property lends itself to commer- cial. You've got a major artery there. You're surrounded on three sides. Of course Mahogany Bay is across the street but that's, that's net saying a whole lot in my estimation. You've got industrial to one side, commercial to the other side. Commercial and residentialo..it's on two major arteries anyhow. I think the corner should go commercial. I think all that we're arguing here is two months. And if it makes our City Planner sleep better tonight then... Annunziato: Ciklin: Walshak: Ciklin: Walshak: Ciklin: Walshak: It makes me more comfortable legally, Mr. Chairman. Because if they can't prove to the City that they can make this project work, you have Land Use Plan incom- patibility. You have a Land Use category that is not consistent with the zoning. That is illegal. That's what makes me uncomfortable. In an effort to make Mr. Annunziato sleep better we certainly... I mean that's why we're here to get your input and to find out where you want us to go. I'm sure you understand. Sure... We're talking about, I thought possibly that you were talking about maybe this thing being accomplished by October, November, December of this year. But, we're only talking a difference of 60 days... I don't think it's... We quite honestly think it's more. The way we anticipated it was, if we filed an application for Comprehensive Plan amendment .... The only problem is... some of us might now be here next year. My term is up April of next year. (laughter) I can't - 49 - MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Blanchette: Walshak: Ciklin: Walshak: Blanchette: Ciklin: Blanchette: Ciklin: guarantee if you told me (inaudible words). Let's get some place with this today. Okay, thank you Mr. Ciklin. So your advice.., what you're telling American Development is that... Listen to me. We make a recommendation as a Planning and Zoning Board, okay? We recommend to the City Council that this either be approved or denied, okay? That doesn't stop you from going to the City Commission when you have definitive dates or something. We're guestimating here this afternoon. Maybe you'll have more definitive dates... I feel that you can probably go ahead to the City Commission lrregardless of what happens here, bearing in mind that I think most of the members on this Planning and Z~ning Board agree that that is probably a better commercial site for the City of Boynton Beach, okay? But... the Chair will accept a motion on this. Just one question before the motion.., by commercial we're talking about in the same realm as what's existing now through the Catalina Club .... Yes, sir.., it would be compatible with that. ...same type of architecture? Yes sir. It would be compatible. American Development has been in discussion with Ocean Properties and...I don't know, I get the sense of what you're saying. I don't know if it really requires a motion unless you want to give us one. What you're saying is that go through the process Carmen described. Blanchette: The only question I have on it is the legal question of the use of that par- ticular piece of land. 50 MINUTES - PLANNING & ZONING BOARD BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA APRIL 20, 1989 Walshak: You're right. It wOuldn't require a motion because we're not .... Ciklin: So we'll take you advice and we'll find Out from American Development whether they want to wait until October or try again in a week or so witih the City commission. Thank you so much for your time. Walshak: Thank you. Anybody in the audience who wishes toiaddress the Planning and Zoning Board before we wrap this up this evening? (Silence)..~Any discussion? Meeting adjourned. The meeting properly adjourned at 5:30 P,M. Shannon Burkett Recording Secretary (Two Tapes) - 51 -