Loading...
Minutes 07-20-77MINUTES OF T~LE WORKSHOP MEETING OF THE PLANNING & ZONING BOARD HELD A~ CITY HALL, BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA WEDNESDAY, JULY 20, 1977 AT 3:00 P. M. PRESENT Simon Ryder, Chairma~ Col. Walter M. Trauger, Vice Chairman Renald Arena Marilyn Huckle Richard Lambert Mary Schorr Garry Winter Carmen Ann~ziato~ City Planner Chairmsn Ryder called the meeting to order at 3:05 P. M. announced it was the third Workshop Meeting following the public hearing in regards to discussing Chapter 30 pertain- ing to trailers. He added that Mr. Annunziato, the City Planner, will not be able to join~ the Board as he has been detained at an Area Planning Board meeting in West Palm Beach. Minutes of Jul~ 6 ~ .1977 Workshop Meeting Col. Trauger moved that the Minutes of the Workshop Meeting of July 6 be approved as written, seconded by Mr. Lambert. Motion carried 6-0 with Mrs. Schorr abstaining. Minutes of Jul~ .1~ 1977 Workshop Meeting Chairman Ryder ascertained that some of the members had not received these minutes and suggested deferring them until the next meeting. Discussion ~ Chairman Ryder announced he thought they had covered a lot of gro~u~.d regarding definitions, permissive parking and ~ the July 13 meeting, he spelled out a rough outline of the changes to the existing article which would have to ~e made. He suggests possibly referring back to that. He clarified they were talking about definitions, maybe weigh, t categories, where parking would be permissive on private property to be tied in with permits and also boats. At the last meeting, they discussed parking on the owner's lot - parking in the rear, side, driveway, and the area in front. They also talked about additional paving. However, no definite con- clusion was reached. He then read from the July 13 minutes to refresh their memories. Chairman Ryder continued that in reviewing what has happened so far at the two workshop meetings of theBoard, he finds we have been in areas that generally are those being consid- ered by other cities. However, we did get into the area of parking in front of the structures other than on the ~rive- way, which no city now permits which he can find. This ap- pears probably to be a drastic approach. M INU TES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD PAGE TWO JULY 20, 1977 Chairman Ryder then read the fourth paragraph on Page 2 of the July 6 minutes and asked if Mr. Lambert had anything further to state and Mr. Lambert referred to discussing not allowing parking in the side setback area, b~ut he still feels ps, king should be allowed in the driveway. He also thinks they should be able to park on the side or rear in the buiIdable area, but not the side setback which should be left ~epen for reasons. Chairmam Ryder questioned what he area and Mr. Lambert explained if the side ft. and a person had 26 ft. om one side, he should be allowed to park in the 20 ft. area up to the house possibly with proper screening, but the setbacks should be kept ~epen for Col. Trauger questieaed the logic and Mrs. it was for protection of the neighbors police and fire access, flow of air, etc. She added .~ was a reason for the side setbacks and be protected from being up against solid objects4 Also, it was mentioned that parking in the rear should not. be allowed in the setbacks so there is some leeway for the neighbors. Chairman Ryder referred to every ordinance permitting side and rea~ parking and stated these suggestions would limit it to the garage, carport or in the driveway. He read from the Freemomt code allowing parking on the side and rear, but setting certain limitations for how close. Chairman Ryder referred to discussing previously allowing parking in the front of the house off the driveway on un- paved areas. Mrs. Huckle added that Mr. Amnunziato had in- fermed them that a person was allowed to pave the whole area. Mr. Lambert stated they also discussed requiring sur- facing for p8mking in the front and Chairman Ryder replied they were not going to require paving. Col. Trauger told about looking at the side setbacks in the City and how ma~y campers were parked on the sides and he feels it leeks far ~etter~there than out in front. He added that most of them covered at least 2/3's of the dis- tance between the houses. 5~s. Schorr stated that this would mean there could be the possibility of having a trailer parked right against your window. Col. Trauger suggested that the permit require the neighbor,s permission and Chairman Ryder replied that they had not gotten into this, but talked about permits being required and a plan submitted. ~trs. Huckle referred to not allowing buildings in the set- back areas and stated she di~ not see the logic to permit storing. She stated that utility sheds were not allowed there and she thinks some of these sheds are mere present- able than the back of a trailer. ~m. Winter informed her that these recreation vehicles are something which are port- able and Chairman Ryder agreed they were not structures. MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD PAGE THREE JULY 20, 1977 Chairman Ryder explained how he thought some latitude should be given with considering some people not having a garage or carport or wanting to use the driveway for parkimg their car. R~s. Huckle suggested possibly allowing parking outside the setbacks and Mr. Winter explained how msmy homes did not have the room on the side. Chairman RYder stated he thought they should allow parking in the rear or side yards with certain restrictiOns as every other city allows it and if not, there would only be the front driveway or carport. ~rs. Huckle referred te not kmowing the approximate sizes-of lots in the other cities and the setbacks required. Mr. Lambert explained how they must consider the safety factors. Chairman Ryder stated he thought a travel trailer should be allowed parke~ off the driveway since it is not self-pro- pelled and not moved as often. Mr. Lambert replied that he did not think travel trailers should be singled out ~nd there should be no difference what they are allowed to park as long as a permit is obtained. Mrs. Huckle referred to discussing tieing down these vehicles in case of hurricanes as suggested by Mr. Howell and this must be considered. Mr. Arena stated that from his personal opinion, he thinks we have gone off the deep end with the whole thing. He thinks this ordinance will lead straight from the City Coum- cil to the court room. They are talking about not permitting recreation vehicles to park in the side or rear. He has a two car garage and four cars a~d does not think he is the exception, tn his subdivision, there are not ma~y homes with less than two cars and.many with not more than 6 ft. on the side of the house. There are recreation vehicles with some parked in circular driveways, some on the sides, etc. He felt originally they were trying to come up with something to regulate this so there would not be the situa- tion of making an area look rundown or congested. He re- ferred to some people not wanting them parked in the front and others not in the rear and explained how it all came down to the same thing of opinions of appearances. Chair- man R~der asked for his suggestio~and Mr. Arena suggested incorporating into the ordinance the reqmirement of main- taining in a neat and orderly fashion. Mr. Lambert qmes- tioned who would define this and Mr..Arena replied that he believed the inspectors could and clarified that he ~id not have the answers and didn't think any of the members do, but they must keep in mind that it is the m~u's property and how far can we go telling him what to do with his own private property? Chairman Ryder referred to the court decisions smbmitted for their review an~ stated that when living in a City, there are certain restrictions. MII~JTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD PAGE FOUR J~Y 20, 1977 Mr. Lambert stated he suggested last week that they be allowed to park one recreation vehicle with permit in the driveway not encroaching on the side setback~or in front of the ho~se on a surfaced area and if there is more than one vehicle, it could be parked in the rear or side yard. Mr. Arena replied that he saw nothing offensive about this. Chairman Ryder pointed out that they were leaning towards allowing the parking of recreation vehicles in the driveway and r~ght now, this is not allowed. Mr. Arena referred to the c~rent ordinance not Being a~hered to and they have all agreed some kind of regulation~is needed, bmt the question is how to do it. Mrs. Schorr referred to a site plan being submitted with the permit application a~d suggested the Building Official making the decision whether or not parking would be allowed on the side or rear. Mrs. Huckle added that 5~. Howell mentioned that inspectors would, be sent to the site. Chairman Ryder stated he was not in agreement with this and explained how it would be anadditional expense to have inspectors go to the site. Mrs. Huckle read Mr. Howell's statement from the previous minutes. They discUssed further whether it wo~ld be necessary for an ~pector to check the parking. Mr. Lambert again suggested possibly requiring a surfaced area in the front of %he.buildingand they discussed whether this would be advisable. Chairman Ryder referred to the possibility of having them parked on the front lawn Lambert referred to cars being parked there now. Chairman R~der stressed that they must find a solution for the parking of these vehicles, but he did not think it was the City's problem to provide for every continge~y~ Col. Trauger questioned the average width of the recreation vehicles and Mr. Winter informed him that trailers are 7 to 7½ ft., bigger trailers are 8 ft., and ~take alongs are 6½ to 7 ft. Chairman Ryder stated that the length varies and Mr. Winter added that the widths increase with the size. He pointed out that there would just not be the room to park one on the side of a 75 ft. lot. He referred to the aver- age house in the City having 5 to 8 ft. on the side and suggested that they definitely allow them to park on the side. Mr. Lambert referred to the building inspectors having dif- ferent interpretations and stated they should not put the responsibility on the City, but the applicant should indi- cate where it is going to be parked and must be notifie~ that it must be on his own. property. They discussed further the site pla~ requirement~ and Mr. Lambert suggested that it woul~ be the Building Official's responsibility to point out the parking limitations. MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD PAGE FIVE JULY 20, 1977 Mr. Arena stated they must have some restrictive control, but explained that he did mot want to make it too tough for the recreation vehicle owners and mot regulating every possible thing. He also referred to the numbers of recrea- tion vehicles increasing and stated they must come up with something which will be good for years. At this time, Mr. Annunziato arrived hud Chairman Ryder briefly told him about the Board's previous discussions. He referred to Mr. Annunziato reading a list for further areas of discussion after the last meeting and stated he thought they should get to a point where they could assem- ble these things. He suggests that a draft be prepared for submission to the Board for review at a workshop session. He referred to Mr. Annunziato not having the time to do this and ~. Ann~aziato replied that he would appreciate some help in the formation of this proposal. He would be glad to meet with a sub-committee so they could sit down and draft a proposal. He explained that they must have something in writing to look at to with er change. Chairman Annunziato to prepare a the Board could work expe he suggested a work with so be presented to suggested that Chairman Ryder being the Board's responsi- ~ee to work with Mr. outline subject to change, so at meetings. He added that it would be difficmlt to ~tever they come up with will dislcussion, Mrs. Huckle Mr. Ann~ziato start on it as she thinks it would be a easier for two people to work om it and the Board will hawe a rough ~raft to work from. Mr. Arena suggested two members from the Board, but the other members did when they would be avail- able. Mrs. Schorr suggested that any of the members could call Mr. iato and find out the date an~ time of the meeting and c attend if po Chairman Ryder them suggeste~ deferring further meetings and possibly at the nex~ ~egmlar meeting, can set a date when the proposal will be prepared. Mr. Annmnziato then announced that the following were the comments they talked about in rough form: 1. We started talking about numbers and it appeared to be the consensus as many recreation vehicles as desired in an enclosed garage and at least two sided carport, but not beyond the roof line, an~ permit required. 2. No .parking in si~e or rear set~acks. 3. One recreation vehicle on drive with permit. 4. Total number of not enclosed recreation vehicles - two per site. MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD PAGE SIX JULY 20, 1977 5. Definition to be added. 6. No parking on any street or public rights-of-way. 7. Attempt to secure for hurricanes and ¥~. Howell will give us a synopsis of what could be done. 8. Site plan. Include with application a sample site plan prepared by the staff where the applicant ca~ park the vehicle. 9. Do not treat multi-purpose vehicles as recreation vehicles, for example the pickup trucks with shells. Mr. Lambert came up with the question of what is a ~ or 1 ton ~an and it was suggested that some pro- fessional help be consulted, possibly from the car dealers. 10. How do you determine the current status of a boat. Chairman Ryder added that they kicked around the Coast Guard registration in addition to State~r~gis- tration. Chairman Ryder informed Mr. Annunziato that the members had Been talking about some of these things. In reference to parking on the side or rear, we feel there should be a defi- nite limitation where you can go. It was also pointed out that almomt every ordinance from other cities permits side and rear paking, b~t not o~ the driveways~. Mr. Ann~ziat~ referred to parking in the side yard and stated there coul~ be the possibility of an objectionable instance with having a 28 ft. long, 10 ft. high recreation vehicle being parked on the side, which almost would extend to the next home. Mr. Winter pointed out that actually the owner's own air flew would be blocked and not the neighbor's..Mr. Annunziate stated that the setbacks were planned with 15 ft. of commom ~ninterrupted space. ~£ter discussion, Mrs. Schorr asked if it could be limited ~y the Building Official when the site plan was presented and Mro Annunziato replied that he did not see how they could have ~City Official make a determinatio~ where one thing is alloWed and another not. Mrs. Schorr told about an area where there were heavy equip- ment trucks parked on a vacant lot, ~ut the neighbors do not o~ject. Mrs. Huckle suggested requiring a permit be issued to a person for his own residential property, but not for a vacant lot. Mrs. Echo~ asked what would happen if these were noted being parke~ without permits and Mr. Annu~ziato replied that it was in violation of the ordinance and the owner would be held liable. Chairman Ryder referred to also discussing the extent the Building Department would get involved and stated he did not think it was necessary to have a building inspector go out to check the parking. He feels there should be some MINUTES PLANING & ZONING BOARD PAGE SEVEN JULY 20, 1977 statement on the form with the owner attesting to the fact that it will be p~rked on his own property. He suggests discmssing this further with Mr. Howell and ~. Annmnziate ~greed. ~. Annunziato added that each inspector does have an area of the City he is supposed to patrol right now. Mr. Arena questioned how ~developed lots would be controlled and Mr. Lambert suggested improved lots. Lambert referred to the poss y of someone owning the lot next door and they discussed whether it woul~ be permiss- able to have two vehicles parked on each lot. Mr. Annunziato suggested limiting the total number to two and possibly tie in the residence with the parking of the vehicle. He added that they comld not allow wholesale parking on vacant lots. There was further discussion about this and Mr. Lambert again suggested stating improved property. Mr. Lambert stated he still ~idn't like permitting a~ything to be parked o~ carports without a permit~ Mr. Wi~ter sug- gested requiring a permit for every vehicle no matter where it is parked. Mr. Lambert replied that he could do anything he wanted in his garage and questions the legality of requir- ing a permit for parking in the garage. He explained how he was disturbe~ with s~eing junk cars, heats being repaired, etc. in plain view in the They discussed further Whether a permit shoUl~ be mired for parking in carports and whether limitatioz~ could ~e placed on carport use. Col. Trauger stated he liked Mr. Lambert's idea to require it to be surfaced in the front ~ud suggests possibly requir- ing the larger of the two ~ehicles to be parked here with leaving the side open for the smaller vehicle. He also sug- gested that a measurement be defined, such as 2 to 3 ft. from the lot line on the side. Mr. Winter referred to neigh- bors possibly objecting with ~the large vehicles being parked in the front. They discussed parking on the side further. Mr. Lambert suggested possibly allowing parking on one side or the other for safety purposes. Chairman Ryder suggested this could be spelle~ out when the plan is file~. Mr. Winter stated he still liked to keep the front of the house as clear as possible. Chairman Ryder announced that the date for the next workshop session would be set at the regular meeting and advise~ that he would meet with Mr. Annunziato and prepare an outline. Col. Trauger moved to adjourn, seconded by Mr. Lambert. Motion carried 7-0 and the meeting was properly adjourned at 4:45 P. M. (TwO Tapes)