Loading...
Minutes 07-06-77MINUTES OF THE WORKSHOP ~TING OF THE PLANNING & ZONING BOARD HELD AT CITY HALL~ BOYNTON BEACN, FLORIDA WEDNESDAY, JU~ 6, 1977 AT 2:00 P. M. PRESENH Simon Ryder, Chairman Col. Walter M. Trauger, Vice Chairman Ronald Arena Mrs. Marilyn Huckle Richard Lambert Garry Winter Carmen Annuaziato, City Planner ABSENT 51rs. Mary Schorr (Excused) Chairmam Ryder called the Workshop Meeting to order at 2:00 P. M. and announced the purpose was to continue with consid- eration of the present ordinance, Chapter 30, dealing with trailers with regards to possible modifications for amend- ments of' changes. He introduced the members of the Board and also Sgt, Damiel Remehuck of the Boynton Beach Police Department and Miss Dawn Abramson of the City Planner's Office running the tape recorder for the minutes of this meeting, Chairman Ryder referred to the members being faced with a formidable task and suggested laying dow~ ~om~ guidelines so they could more or less define the scope they are going to be faced with. He requested feelings from the Board. members in reference to their agreement that the present ordinance will not be rescinded in its entirety but possi- bly be subjected to recommendations for amendment. He would like to de~ermine if the majority of the members feel an ordinance has to be maintained and they should direct themselves possibly to recommending changes. Basically, the City of Boynton Beach will still have an ordinance in regards to trailers, etc. He asked if they were in accord and the replies were affirmative. Chairman Ryder then continued with stating he thought they were going to need a number of meetings. He referred to the pressure being off since there is a moratorium and the people not being tagged and he is sure the Council will not be in a hurry to get it back because they are going to have problems. He suggestsC carrying on a number of these meetings and re- ferred to the possibility of not being able to get a working group of four members every time to attend the workshop ses- sions and suggested possibly sebting up a sub-committee of two to three members to meet with the City Planner in the Building Dept. conference room during his working hours._ He referred to this method possibly expediting some of the work they have to do and requested comments from the members. MINUTES - WORKSHOP MEETING PLANN~G & ZONING BOARD PAGE JULY 6, 1977 Mr. Lambert replied that he did not think a sub-committee would be necessary. He referred to having enough members present today and suggests until there is a problem, they should continue with workshop meetings. Mr. Arena agreed and questioned why Chairma~ Ryder felt this would take so long and Chairma~ Ryder replied that almost every city has' an ordinance, but apparently in many instances they do not enforce them or have trouble. He would like this City to have an ordinance which would be realistic-and not something just on the books. Because there are various differences in the ordinances, he thinks they may spend a great deal of time. He also explained that they must consider the area of boats. At this time, Chairman Ryder acknowledged the presemce of the Building Official, Mr. Bud Howell. Mr. Arena referred to reading through most of the material subm~_tted and suggested that they basically stick with the ordinances which have been tested in court and use them as guidelines. Also, if they stick to a description of recrea- tion vehicles, they can name a whole list. They must con- sider that any type of ordinance could be challenged in court. He thinks a lo~ of time would be eliminated and they could come up with a recommendation within the guidelines of the law by sticking to the ordinances which have been tested in court. Chairman Ryder agreed they could Start with this, but they must bear in mind what the acceptance will be here in the City of Boynten Beach. He referred to the people speaking at the meeting last week being mainly in objection to the ordinance and they must get acceptance or the Police and Council will have problems. He does not see how they can minimize what their job will be. Mr. Lambert stated that he has read all the information sub- mitred and the ordinances are not the same for the municipal- ities, but some ~re similar. He suggests not allowing these vehicles on any public streets~or public rights-of-way, but they should be allowed to be ps~ked ia the driveway with a permit from the City. If there is more than one vehicle, it should be parked on the side or in the rear.and be screened. He personally feels we should not rule out letting people park their boat or trailer in their driveway as long as it does not encroach on City right-o~f-way. Also, not limit the size. Chairman Ryder agreed this was a good start. Chairman Ryder then referred to Mr. Winter being familiar with these vehicles with having owned several types and asked him to define the various categories. He questioned the dis- tinction between a recreation vehicle, trailer and motor home? Mr. Winter replied that all three will take recreation vehicle tags. A motor home is self-propelled and is a driven vehicle which can be used for camping purposes and can be a~ything from 16 ft. He explained how everything could be put in the MINUTES - WORKSHOP MEETING PLANNING & ZONING BOARD PAGE THREE JULY 6, 1977 classification of vehicle for the p~rpose of recreation. Chairman Ryder questioned the distinction between a recrea- tion vehicle and trailer and Mr. Winter informed him that both have recreation vehicle license pl~es, but the distinc- tion is between motor home and trailer. A motor home is self-propelled and a trailer must he Mr. Annunziato requested Sgt. Remchuck to give information on consideration of this by the Police Dept. Sge. Remchuck re- plied that he agrees some of the trailers are attached to pickup trucks, but do extend 45 ft. The specifications of a recreation vehicle is that you must have a 110 volt outlet and must have recreation vehicle tags. However, with the shortness of tags in Palm Beach County, there are some other vehicles with recreation vehicle tags. Mr. An~unziato clari- fied that classifying these vehiclesby license tags would not be a recommended means for recognition. Mr~ Winter added that a popoff camper~is also classified as a recreation vehi- cle, but does not necessarily have electricity. Sgt. Remchuck informed him that this was the classification which he got from the County in reference to recreation vehicle tags. Mr. Winter stated that instead of using recreation vehicle tags, wouldn't it be better to determine it from the registration and Sgt. Remchuck i~formed him that recreation vehicle or motor home~ is listed on the registration. Mr. Winter clar- ified that the registration would be more indicative of what the vehicle is. Mr. Annunziato referred te there being a problem of enforce- ment aud asked how they enforced what is and L~ ~ot a recrea- tion vehicle and Sgt. Remchuck replied that they do not know if the tag is legal and must check the registration. Mrs. Huckle referred to the suggestion to have a permit from the City and asked if it would be a sticker which could be placed on the window. Chairman Ryder read an article from the July 4th ~e~ition of the Sun Sentinel in reference to Boca Raton operating under an emergency ordinance. He told about an association in Boca Raton suggesting that vans ~ud pickup trucks Be allowed with- out restriction in an attached garage or carport. However, they may be parked in the front driveway if adjacent property owners approve. Here they are asking for the neighbors' approval. As they are aware, most of the flack comes from the complaints of neighbors. There is also the mat~er o~ enforcement and somebody must check on whether they have gotten the approval of the neighbors. Presently Boca Raton does not permit such parking on the driveway and it must be in the rear or side yard. MINUTES - WORKSHOP MEETING PLANNING & ZONING BOARD. PAGE FOUR JULY 6, 1977 Mr. Winter referred to length limitations and asked wh~twould be done if somebody wanted to park a 45 ft. long trailer in their ~riveway and Chairman Ryder replied that he believed that should~be part of the consideration as limitation could get out of hand. Mr. Lambert referred to the ordinance from Freemont, Calif., going into great detail and explained how their definitions clarified just what was referred to. He also pointed out that ~ehicles were allowed in the buildable area, but only when paved and not encroaching on a public easement. He believes if someone has a long paved ~iveway, he should be able to park on it as long as it does not encroach on the sidewalk and also it is not allowed to be parked on the grass. Chairman Ryder added that this ordinance also defines drive- way, carport, garage, etc. Mr. Lambert read Section 5-C for further clarification. Mr. Annunziato suggested they find out the problems they have had enforcing the existing ordinance and he requested Mr. Howell to comment on whether the complaints have been in re- ference to parking the recreation vehicles in yards, grass, too long, in need of repairs, etc. Mr. Howell referred to Mr. Lambert stating that the ordinance from Freemont, Calif., was detailed and stated that the more detailed it is, the easier it is to enforce. He believes the definitions should spell out What they are talking about. He added that he be- lieves they would be kicked out of court with the present ordinance since it does not include boats, which in his opi- nion are recreation vehicles. He then told about the ordi- nance presemtly being enforced on a complaint basis. Mr. Howell then stated that he personally would like to see a limit placed on the number of recreation vehicles would be allowed. He told about one place having a boat on a trailer, mobile home, motor home, boat in the yard and a swamp buggy parked. He thinks there must be a ceiling and stressed that if the Planning & Zoning Board and City Council want a good looking town, there must be some rules.. Mr. Lambert asked if the complaints regarded the condition of the recreation vehicle, where it was parked, blocking view, etc. and Mr. Howell replied that to his knowledge, the most common complaint is that where I live it is a good neighborhood and they don't think this should be allowed. Also, another complaint is someone has a boat, trailer, etc. and the place looks like a junk yard. He does not think there have been any complaints about stopping the air flow. Mr. Lambert asked if people were calling saying they were putting the Building Dept. on notice that the law is being broken and Mr. Howell replied: absolutely~and usually refer MINUTES - WORKSHOP ~ETING PLANNING & ZONING BO~A~D PAGE FIVE JULY 6, 1977 to there being an ordinance on the books which is not being enforced. He added that probably 4~ of the calls are for recreation vehicles such as motor homes and trailers, 3~ for Boats and the rest for junk cars. Mr. Annunziato asked iff~ere had been any complaints from people comp~ining about others living in motor.~-homes or trailers and Mr. Howell re- plied: yes, he does get a number of complaints on that espec- ially during the season. He added that about 50% of the time, it is correct and the other times, the owners are pre- that he understands of people cooking, slee etc. in the vehicles. He certainly hopes the new will prohibit third also the parking on public streets. Mr. Howell referred~to living in Florida for 31 years and stated that he was very concerned, He referred to there being a State law requiring mobi]~ homes to be tied down in trailer parks and anchored. He suggested the Board consider how this would apply to motor homes and trailers in regards to the possibility of a hurricane.. Mr. Lambert informed him that some of the ordinances do cover this an~ require it to be tied down and when applying ~or a permit, it must be shown how it will be tied down. Mr. Howell told about Briny Breezes having the mobile homes tied down, but they were disintegrated during a hurricane. He certainly suggests that the Board consider this. There was reference to concrete mixers being on trailers and Mr. Howell informed them there was zoning allowing the storage of this type and at the beginning of the hurricane season, he will send a letter to all contractors reguesting them to keep their equipment in construction areas where they can be tied down specifically. He added that 3/4 ton truck was in the ordinance now. Mr. Lambert asked what a 3/4 ton truck was and Mr. Howell informed him it was a pickup or panel. Mr. Annunziato referred to the possibility of a landscaper parking his equipment in his yard and Howell replied that the landscaper should be required to have either a garage or place of b~iness and should screen it. Mr. Annunziato asked if this was enforced now and Mr. Howell replied that they were not enforcing anything now except junk cars. Mr. Annenziato questioned their enforce- ment before the moratorium and M~. Howell replied that they only enforced it if there was a complaint. Col. Trauger asked~Nf there was anything aginst the number of ~ehicles in the yard and Mr. Howell replied:No. Col. Trauger referred to the possibility of some not being oper- ational and Mr. Howell informed him that there is a junk car or abandoned car ordinance, but it is tough to enforce it if i~ is on pri~ate~'property. MINUTES- WORKSHOP MEETING PL_~NNING & ZONING BOARD PAGE $~ JULY 6, 1977 Mr. Lambert stated it would not be discriminating with re- quiring them to be licensed and have current inspection. Chairman Ryder read the recommendations from Boca Raton pertaining to limiting to two at each residence and not counting any totally enclosed. He clarified that Boats and trailers were limited to two and passenger vehicles limited to three. Mr. Lambert replied that it would Be tough to enforce a~ud referred to there not being anything about licensed or inspected vehicles° Chairman Ryder clari- fied that he just referred to it with regards to restricting the number. Mr. ~rena asked if the Building Dept. would have any problems en£orci~gan ordinance such as this a~dMr. Howell replied that if~.~an ordinance is clear, there will ~ot be any pro- hlems~. Chairman Ryder clarified that the ordin~uce should be detailed and include some limitations or restrictions. Chairman Ryder then referred back to boats and stated he personally felt a boat was more noticable than two trucks or campers Being parked in a driveway. He explained how the ~oats usually didn't get moved from the premises often. Mr. Howell informed him that some beat owners use them every weekend and others use them heavy for a month and then they sit. Chairman Ryder stated that if they are not on a trailer, they probably are not used much at all. Chairman Ryder then asked Sgt. Remchuck if he thought the ordinance should be spelled out in detail and Sgt. Remchuck replied that he agreed 100~. He added that he would like to elaborate on the complaints they have been receiving. Their biggest complaints regard the parking of mobile homes and trucks. Numerous complaints investigated are mobile homes used for recreation vehicles. He also suggested having regu- lations regarding the over-night parking of tractor trailers. However, as far as boats, they have not received any complaints. Chairma~ Ryder asked if boats should be considered and Egt. Remchuck replied that they would be faced with trying to de- fine restrictions on Boats. Chairman Ryder referred to many of the codes having limitations on boats and spell~ug out to various degrees and sgt. Remchuck replied that if a~ ordi- nance was written with specifics in great detail of what you can park and cannot, he does not think there would be any problem enforcing it. He further explained that Boats on trailers were usually under 23 ft.~ Mr. Howell stated he personally thinks a mo~ile home or travel trailer or anything of that nature looks better i~ the front yard than a beat does. He s~ggests that some ~nd of ordinance limit this. Most of the front yard setbacks are MINUTES~ - WORKSNOP MEETING PLANNING & ZONING BOARD PAGE SEVEN JULY 6, 1977 25 ft. Ne suggests taking into consideration trying to get something of that nature. If they require paving, there are 7½ and 10 ft. side setbacks and most boats could go in the side yard. Mr. Winter referred to some homes only haviag 6 ft. side setbacks and they discussed whether such a req~ement of paving on the side would be advisable and if the size of boats would be limited. Mr. Arena stressed that they must be sure the ordinance regu- lates parking and doesn't ban it. He suggests something on the order of incorporating the requirement~ of being in a neat and orderly fashion. He explained how they were actually trying to regula~the appearance. He pointed out that they m~st be concerned with the property owners and permanent resi- dents. Chairman Ryder asked if Mr. Howell saw any problems with a permit basis and Mr. Howell replied that he thought it would be a good idea and suggests possibly the same as used for contractors. Chairman Ryder asked if he thought this would be handled by the Building Dept. rather than the Police Dept. and Mr. Howell replied: yes. Mrs. Huckle asked if there would be an additional problem of enforcement if they included something written to allow the neighborhoods to have recourse, such as with 5~ objecting. ¥~. Howell replied that he thought this was the biggest pro- blem as some neighborhoods don't want anything like that and this must be ironed out by the Board. Mr. AnnunZiato cau- tioned that they must be careful not to discriminate and ex- plained how neighborhoods could have restrictive covenants. He explained how this would be a neighborhood problem. They discussed further the neighborhood situation being in favor of or against the parking of recreation vehicles. ~s. Huckle then questioned Mr. Lambert's suggested limita- tions and Mr. Lambert explained that he thought one should be allowed to be parked in the driveway, but a~y others must be parked in the side or rear. Chairman Ryder asked if any type of vehicles would be excluded and Mr. Lambert replied that certain commercial types should be excluded over a cer- tain tonna~e. Chairman Ryder referred to parking being al- lowed with a permit and Mr. Lambert clarified that a permit would be required with proof submitted of the host hav~ng a current Coast Guard sticker, trailer with current license tag, a~d a recreation vehicle with current permit, licensed and state inspection sticker. Chairman Ryder cls~ified that this would be indicated on the permit application and Mr. Lambert agreed and added that it would rule out junk boa~s and cars. Col. Trauger stated that Coast Guard stickers were not required on all boats and Mr. Lambert replied that the trailers need a license and Mr. Howell added that the Boats MINUTEg - WORKSHOP MEETING PLANNING & ZONING BOARD PAGE EIGHT JULY 6, 1977 do have to be registered. Mr. Lambert added that if boats are stored, which can be defi~ed, they should not be in the driveway and should be out of sight and explained. Chairman Ryder requested Mr. Howell's opinion and Mr. Howell replied that he agreed and likes the idea of requiring a current license. Mr. Annmnziato stated if the number of recreation vehicles was limited, there could be possibly four to five in the back yard. He explained how this affected the neighbors mud sug- gested that a limit be set. He also told them about Mr. Moore's opinion that if there is going to be a permit system, there must be means for pulling the permit away if the person does not cenform.~Ee explained how they must have a hearing procedure. They discussed further the enforcement of various codes.. Mrs. Huckle asked if the permits would be renewed annually and !~. Howell replied: yes and explained how the inspectors could check if the permit stickers are valid. Mrs. Huckle asked if they would inspect the condition and Mr. Howell explained how there was the possibility of people remodeling boats and vehicles a~_d as long as the recreation vehicle meets the State law, they cannot bother it. Chairman Ryder suggested that ~. Howell obtain a copy of th~ Freemont, Calif., code for review. He suggested that the members explore the avenues suggested by N~. Lambert te allow parking on drivewaya, limiting vehicles by permit, and defining the vehicles and consolidate their viewpoints. He requested each member ~o be prepared for the next meeting. Mr. Annmnziato agreed this was the proper way to ge. He thinks they have established what the problem is and what it is going to he. They kaow what the people are complaining about and what should be .~c~vered in the ordinance. The ques- tion is getting down to numbers and procedure. Mr. Annunziato asked if the weight was note~ on the registra- tions of vans and Sgt. Remchuck explained that it was and this would be the only way to determine it. Mr. Annunziato referred to vans, pickups with shells, etc. being used for transportation purposes as well as recreation and explained how he thought it would he hard to limit the number. ~s. Huckle asked if this ordinance would incorporate boat docking facilities on private property ~ndMr. Annunziato replied that he did not think the City should get into it as navigational waterways are covered by the engineers. MINUTES - WORKSHOP ~TING PLANNING & ZONING BOARD PAGE NINE JULY 6, 1977 Col. Trauger suggested that they first consider defimitions. He agrees with Mr. Lambert that there must be some type of permit and limitation as to numbers. However, he is still bothered about some neighborhoods with deed restrictions which are discretionary to a point. They discussed how deed restrictions were applicable and ~. Annunziato stressed that any ordinance passed by the City must cover the whole City and the City is not to get involved in deed restrictions. Mr. Winter asked if it would be advisable for an owner to Submit a plot plan when applying for a permit showing a desig- nated area where the vehicle will be parked and Mr. Howell explained how he did not think this would be a good idea. ~r. Annunziato referred to the possibility of having only a 20 ft. driveway with a 40 ft. vehicle parked and asked what would happen and Mr. Howell replied that the vehicle would have to be moved because it is in violation. Mr. Annunziato stated he thought a site plan would be excel- lent and ~M. Lambert replied that it would be a commitment to park on a certain location. Mr. Howell referred to the problem of having these drawings made. Mr. Lambert asked if the vehicle would have to be pulled to the Building Depti or the men would go to the location to inspect it and Mr. Howell replied that the people would come in for a sticker and a man would be sent out to inspect it. Col. Trauger questioned the cost for the sticker and Mr. Howell suggested a minimum of $5.00 per year. Mr. Winter asked if this was per vehicle and Mr. Howell replied: yes. Mrs. Huckle asked if ones would be required for vehicles parked in the side yards, etc. and Mr. Howell replied: yes or they could not limit the ~umber. Mrs. Huckle asked about storing and Mr. Howell replied he thought they should be lic~sed so they could ksep out junkers, but if it is in the garage, they don't care. They discussed the ~creening of the vehicles further. Chairman Ryder referred back to the suggestion~ of requiring a plan and stated he agreed that people would have problems filing a~ application. Mr. Arena pointed out that they must consider peoples' rights and what they ca~ do on their own property. He explained how it shouldn't be made difficult for someone to have a recreation vehicle, but they want regu- lation. ~. Winter clarified that he meant a designated parking area where the vehi~e will be stored when not in use. They discussed further whether it would be reasonable to re- quire such a plan. Chairman Ryder then suggested setting a date for the next workshop meeting and after discussion, it was agreed to meet on Wednesday, July 13 at 3:00 P. M. MINUTES - WORKSHOP MEETING PLANNING & ZONING BOARD PAGE TEN JULY 6, 1977 Chairma~ Ryder then announced he thought they had made pro- gress today. He requested the members to consider defini- tions for the next meeting and consider the matter of pmrsu- ing the approach suggested by Mr. Lambert regarding parking under permit on the premises. He also recommended that they review the Freemont, Calif., code. Mr. Howell also suggested keeping in mind some kind of tie-dow~ and added that it did not have to be spelled out, but if it is kept or stored in a neighborhood, it must meet building code regulations for tie-downs. Mr. Winter stated that his definition was a vehicle used pri- marily for recreational purposes whether used on land or on water including towable equipment used to transport such. vehicles. Mr. John Jamison appeared before the Board and stated he liked the plan outlined by Mr. Lambert; however, he suggests not allowing asphalt jungles in front of homes. ¥~. Howell in- formed him that the law allowed a person to concrete their whole yard. Mr. Arena referred to Mrs. Huckle mentioning something about different areas and zoning and read the decision remdered on the Village of Morton case referring to this. They then discussed further the enforcement of violations to the regulations. Mr. Lambert then made a motion to adjourn, seconded hy Mr. Winter. Motion carried 6-0 and the meeting was properly adjourned. Respectfully submitted, Suzanne M. Kruse Recording Secretary (Two Tapes)