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Minutes 07-22-75MINUTES OF THE WORKSHOP MEETING OF THE PLANNING & ZONING BOARD HELD AT CITY HALL, BOYNTON BEACH, FLORIDA, TUESDAY, JULY 22, 1975 AT 8:30 P. M. PRESENT Joseph T. Kelly, Chairman Walter M. Trauger, Vice Chman. Mrs. Vicki Castello Mrs. Marilyn Huckle Enrico Rossi Simon Ryder ABSENT Warren Bushnell, Acting Bldg. Official Len Schmidt, Acting Chief Bldg. Inspector Oris Walker (Excused) Chairman Kelly called the Workshop Meeting to order at 8:37 P.M. He announced that in effect, it was a continuance of the Saturday workshop session. He stated they are at a point where he thin~ they can get a summary review of the Saturday meeting by referring to Page 15 as a starting point. Mrs. Huckle asked Mr. Bushnell if he was able to ascertain whether the City had on the books an ordinance requiring a minimum lot of 60 ft.? ~!r. Bushnell replied that he ne- glected to find this out. It was pointed out to him that all ordinances relating to planning and zoning in the City are completely rescinded unless these regulations state otherwise. Chairman Kelly referred to Mrs. Padgett showing him the ordi- nance where specifics were mentioned and that the Board had left out not only the chapter on the Board of Adjustment, but they didn't specifically recommend that the old code covering gas stations be included. He informed her that they did not handle this section of the blue book, but Mr. Barrett took care of this with the City Attorney. Mx. Decker appeared before the Board and referred to his previous inquiry of being allowed to build duplexes on 50 ft. lots. He bought four lots and built on two and has two which are not buildable now because of the 50 ft. width. His reason for being here tonight is to point out if they are going to recommend grandfathering on one~ section, he believes everyone should be treated equally by granting it on all sec- tions. Chairman Kelly informed him that on Saturday, they Just had time to discuss the R-1AA sections. Mrs. Huckle referred to the R-1AAB zones and these properties previously being R-1AA. If they are ~oing to allow the ori- ginal R-1AA zones go back to ?½ ft., ~t would also apply to this zone. Chairman Kelly asked what was platted as R-1AAB and Mr. Bushnell informed him there was only one area, Lake MINUTES PLA~q~ING & ZONING BOARD PAGE TWO JULY 22, 1975 Eden. Mrs. HUckle stated that this should be in the same category as the other R-1AA. Chairman Kelly informed them that City personnel stated they should just grandfather everything before Jane 3 and make new areas conform. Mr. Ryder referred to the minutes and several people appear- ing before the Board with similar problems. They have come to a consensus on R-I~, but must go further on residential zon!ng. If they do it generally, they could state it can be rolled back stating they are entitled to build according to regulations in effect prior to June 13. Mr. Bushnell agreed this would open up construction in the City. Mrs. Huckle suggested they start at the top and work down. Mr. Bushnell referred to the R-1AAB area and informed them that a study was made, but the area is somewhat less than 5~ developed. The lots are also over the minimum allowed. In most instances, lots are 96 ft. wide and 90 ft. is required. These areas were studied. Chairman Kelly referred to Page 17 stating the requirements for R-lAmB and Mrs. Huckle pointed out with comparing it to R-lk&, which they were previously~$ means anyone doing anything new will look a lot different from the neighbors and also some may be non-conforming now. Mr. Bushnell agreed that this possibility does exist. Mrs. Huckle stated she thought it should be included in the same recommendation as R-1AA. Mr. Ryder referred to the Board of Adjustment not acting on non-conforming properties. Mr. Healy informed him that this would change and they must hear the cases. ~s. Huckle asked when they expected to get this ruling and ~. Healy replied: hopefully this week. Mrs. Castello referred to their recommendation meaning all lots which were platted before this new ordinance will actu- ally not be upgraded at all and will stay as they are. Chairman Kelly referred to the input from people stating that most areas are nice. ~s. Castello stated in order not to discriminate, they must include all areas platted before June 13, 1975, which takes in all undeveloped platted land and is very broad. Mr. Ryder questioned how broad this was going to be and referred to people talking about this at the last meeting with areas being almost completely developed. He is not too happy when they talk about platted and not developed. Chairman Kelly pointed out there was recourse with the Board of Adjustment. Mrs. Huckle stated she was unhappy with people being unable to enclose a screen porch. Mr. Ryder suggested possibly limiting it to those wanting to make alterations. Mr. Rossi stated~he thought the whole purpose of zoning was to improve something which they felt was unsightly before and to upgrade the City. They are MINUTES PL~ING & ZONING BOARD PAGE THREE JULY 22, 1975 saying now that what they have done was a mistake and they should un~o and let people build according to the previous zoning code. With running their thoughts into a couple zones, it could also go back to commercial zones. Mr. Bushnell sug- gested confining their discussion regarding grandfathering to residential areas, since they deal with densities. ~. Rossi disagreed. Mr. Ryder stated it should apply to future develop- ments, but not wi~e out everything havin~ b~en done. Mrs. Huck]pe referred to a neighborhood half built. People building on vacant lots would have to have a smaller house. Are they making a better City with requiring a smaller house in an area with larger homes? Are they doing the City a favor? They could not think of everything ahead. They also did not realize it would penalize people wanting to make ad- ditions. She does not think they are doing the citizens a favor by making them shrink on the property they have paid good money for, especially since they bought it knowing what the regulations were. The unplatted should be platted ac- cording to the new zoning. Mr. Ryder asked what area was planned for future expansion and Mr. Schmidt informed him that the master plan went to 441. Mr. Bushnell added that 1/3 of the unplatted area was residential. Mr.-Ryder asked what the present western limit was and ~. Bushnell informed him that it was the City limits with all annexations to date. M~. Ryder continued that he thought to that extent, the zoning would be helpful if they do limit it to that. These new requirements should substan- tially apply to unplatted areas. Col. Trauger referred to their changes and pointed out that they did it with the hopes of upgrading the City. If they go and change each one of these back, they really have not progressed much. Chairman Eelly referred to Mrs. Huckle's statement referring to undeveloped lots being built with smaller houses which is not upgrading. Mr. Rossi asked what percentage was not conforming with tak- ing each one of the areas outlined and shown on the map and going through the plat books? Has a study been made of how many do not meet the requirements? Mr. Schmidt replied that a study has not been made, but he has had four houses which the builder chopped off the sides to conform to the setbacks. ~-M. Rossi referred to the R-1AAB lots mnd asked how many met the requirements? Mr. Schmidt replied that they had not studied this. Mr. Bushnell added that the developed lots may be a problem, but the undeveloped lots are not. Mrs. Castello suggested adding a clause that when this code renders a struc- ture non-conforming and they plan to make an addition, it is all right. Mrs. Huckle asked about lots not built on. M~. MINU~$ PLANNIN~ & ZONING BOARD PAGE FOUR JULy 22, 79?5 Rossi asked if the lots met the Size in R-1AAB and ~. Bush_ nell replied: yes. Mr. Ryder stated if they grandfathered them ail in, the map WOUldn,t mean anything at all. Mr. Rossi lng the old map onto the new map.SUggested OVerlay_  Healy referred to tz~ o_~.. . this thi~ ~ ~ ~? about 8~.~ ~_ ~_~ ~q. ft. area? tared to respond to the 80o~ as he thinks the figure will be larger. Mr. Rossi informed him that they did recognize this problem on Saturday and it was a general consensus on this particular zone that it should be reduced. Chairman Kelly referred to Page 15 of the minutes of the July ~9 workshop meeting and read the consensus of opinion of the members re- garding the R-1AA zones. ~l~°~aiwr~ferred back to the · ~e consensus ~ao zone a~d S~nce the~ ~ that the ~_~.~ stated if thi .... ~ ~e~ requirement~ '~ °~ area is n .... o ~.'ea. Mr. Bus ~ ~? then they don,t ~ .... o~ a ~roblem .~ ~ on on R-~A~ ~ ~ ~ ~e Would lik~ ,~- ~ :nange ~* ~nis ar~ ~_ ~ ~ ~ne BUil~ ~_ T~ ~=~ ~o tab~ requ~emen ~_ ~si_ asked if : .ent will 1 met _ts.and ~. ~Ushn :: ~_£.~h? pl~tted lot~ ~^~ ~,~ al~ requ~rement~ ,,__e~ ~'~Yl~ed that t~ .... ~ 2~uSr they Were ~JC ~'s. ~Uckle added ~f~jacan~ lots merits. Mr ~-~ TtS~us±Y regulate -.. ~ cneY must co - forminghouses which are built and °~ COnsider non-con_ this will be a separate action. Nfs. Huckle replied that this is what she was refer_ ring to. Mr. Rossi stated that rather than making a blanket statement ~o turn everything back to what it was before, it wouldn,t show much foresight in the preparation of the regulations. They must come up with specific recommendations for specific zones. If something has to be done in every zone, it will different. Mrs. Huckle stated that Dne ~- -- ~J nad good Plan at the first .ear~ng, but C~ty Council made ~ ~any h ' ~ey thought t~i .... be changes. When they face the property OWner with his little Piece of property, you don,t dare give one fellow a leniency and have the next appear before the Board of Adjustment. Mr. Rossi rezarked that it was not upgrading the City then. Mrs. HUckle continued that they must Provide for the future. What they ha4 Planned after two years Work evidently isn't work_ able. When meeting the property owner face to face, it be- came a different story. ~ Mr- Schmidt requested that he be brought up to date with having only attended a few meetings. He referred to the preliminary copy 002 and asked what happened to the para- graphs dealing With the Board of Adjustment and what was MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD PAGE FIVE JULY 22, 1975 the reason for taking them out? These paragraphs sound like the whole answer. Chairman Kelly informed him that this Board had nothing to do with this. The former acting City Planner and the City Attorney took care of this and the Board had nothing to do with the removal of these paragraphs. ~. Schmidt suggested if there was no reason for dropping them, they should put them in and it will solve the problems. gives relief to the person owning one or two lots, applie~ to non-conforming lots and houses, etc. Col. Trauger read this Page 45. ~s. Castello stated she thought something should be included in the new code to keep applications from going before the Board of Adjustment. AlsO~, the Board of Adjustment is awaiting a clearer decision regarding this. Chairman Kelly asked if Mr. Bushnell discussed this with Mr. Simon and Mr~ Bushnell replied that he gave this information to Mr. Simon at the last City Council meeting with the pages marked for his reading. Mrs. Huckle stated she thought they should consider what they should do prior to having someone having to go to the Board of Adjustment. They must make it a workable zoning plan. Mr. Bushnell referred to the possibility that these para- graphs be included and pointed out that it gave relief allow- ing people owning less than two lots to build houses conform- ing under the old code, but it did not apply to those people owning more. He also asked if it was wise for ~ person to build large houses in a community of small houses from a mone- tary point of view? Also, is it wise for the Planning & Zoning Board to force this issue? Mro Ryder stated it didn't always mean a larger house and should mean more air and light. ~r. B~hnell statedhhe thought this was worth considering. Chairman Kelly asked what happened to the pages covering the Board of Adjustment including this non-conformity area that they were not in the new book? Mr. Bushnell repliedtthat they were replaced by those appearing now. Col. Trauger added that someone determine~ it inappropriate to include them. Chairman Kelly stated they must consult the City Attor- ney and have guidance by him. Mrs. Huckle remarked that this whole thing gets depressing. First they started with Mr. Largent, then ~. Barrett and now he's gone and they cannot get the background. Mr. Healy informed them that the Board of Adjustment met with Mr. Barrett and M~. Simon and they discussed these alterations and were told these were situa- tions they would not be confronted with. They did not dis- cuss non-conforming use at all. Chairman Kelly asked if he knew why this was dropped and Mr. Healy replied that he did not. He continued that t~ey discussed special exceptions and reference to the Planning & Zoning Board. They wanted to know why the special exception paragraphs were left in, since they were not going to hear any. He referred to letters being presented at a City Comncil meeting with the explanation MINUTES PLAh~ING & ZONING BOARD PAGE SIX JULY 22, 1975 given by Mr. Simen's partner. They are wondering what hap- pened to these letters and they are trying to find out about them. Mrs. Huckle referred to Page 39 which spells out the Board of Adjustment shall consider special exceptions and Mr. Healy informed her this was all supposed to be eliminated. Mrs. Huckle compared the floor area requirements between the old and new codes. Col. Trauger remarked that he didn't like going back to the old codes. ~. Ryder agreed that he didn't like it either, but they should be consistent. He added that it must be limited to developed areas only and not platted areas. Mrs. Huckle pointed out that platted lots could be owned by people for ten years. Mr. Ryder replied that people lived on developed lots. They would be throwing everything out otherwise. They should m~ke exceptions for developed areas only,regardless when the vacant areas were platted. Mr. Rossi statedhhe didn't think they really focused on the problem. The whole plan must be reviewed. They must also consider commercial areas. They must focus in on the areas which are problems. They seemed to have solved the R-1AA areas and now must consider R-1A~B. M~. Bushnell requested that they leave this zone and the Building Department will measure these lots to see if they are affected. Mrs. Huckle referred to their consideration affecting platted or developed lots. Mr. Ryder referred to limiting it to people living in homes now, it would be all right, but they included vacant lots in the R-1AA recommendation, if what they h~ve done in R-~A~ applies to the others, the map does not mean anything. Mr. Bushnell stated it would change the parameters of the City developed, but would make it better in undevelooed areas. Mr. Ryder agreed that outside of the develope~ areas, it did not mean anything. ~. Bushnell ques- tioned if it was wise to force downgrading of medium size houses by smaller houses, have people before the Board of Ad- justment in large quantities so they just pass them or send people back with owning lots which they cannot do anything with? F~. Ryder referred to ~. Decker having two lots not being able to build on. The only way to retain essence of all the work is to limit the changes to developed areas. Mr. Schmidt referred to the ultimate of the City limits being 441. He informed the Board that the City Council was con- cerned with annexing as fast as possible as much as they could out to 441, so they could set up standards and plan it rather than accepting each tract piece by piece. He thinks this is what the plan is all about, not the center of the City. Mr. Rossi disagreed and referred to the services of a professional planner, which the members discussed. Mrs. Huckle referred to the work on the regulations and map over the years with different planners, Board members and chairmen. Three years MINUTES ~.AN~_NG & ZONING B0~&RD PAGE SEVEN JULY 22, 1975 ago, they were ecology minded; but with the recession, they have become economy minded forcing changes., Many elements must be considered which went into these regulations. Mr. Ryder added that they must also hear the people too. Mr. Rossi referred to going back in all the areas and he is sure if they went by the old zoning plan, they would be doing something which is not right to continue. ~Ms. Huckle stated that if they compared the old code page by page to the new code, they would see that it has been changed. Mm. Rossi replied that he was referring to lot areas, etc. ¥~s. Huckle continued that they threw out 2/3's of the old code. Mr. Rossi stated he was referring to technical things. Col. Trauger stated he thought it would be wrong to let people go back and build according to the old code. They recognized someone would get hurt to a degree, but did not realize the degree of the hurt. He believes it is still a small minority. Changing the side setback from 7½ ft. to 10 ft. really does not change the neighborhood too much. The Board of Adjustment paragraph states everything prior to the code can go accord- mng to the old regulations. He thinks they should take a look at some of these and the measurements and how great a hurt there is. If most comply, let the regulations hold. Mr. Bushnell informed them that the greatest hurt wasson those smaller lots with smaller houses and now, larger lots are re- quired for the same size house. He does not see the improve- ment of 7½ ft. ~er 6 ft. set~ack means one thing to the City improvement. The combination of changing the parameters and width of the lot really does not have to exist. It is not the large lots in R-1AA, R-1AAB and R-1AAA which have caused the problem. One area went from R-1 to R-1L~ and this really caused a ~roblem. Mr. Rossi referred to R-1AAB and there not seeming to be much of a problem. Mr. Bushnell informed him that some of the houses may have been built with the minimum setbacks and the new code msd~es them non-confor~ming. They will measure these and give the Board a count. The members studied the aerial photo of the Lake Eden area. Mr. Bushnell counted approxi- mately 28 lots non-conforming in frontage in this area. ~. Schmidt also noted that the square footage and rear se2backs were kmocked out. Mr. Bushnell pointed out that those being short'in the rear setback were non-conforming before. He added that 28 in a neighborhood of 100 could possibly get relief. Chairman Kelly referred to the R-lA areas and asked how many undeveloped, but unplatted lots there were? Mr. Rossi stated he believed the biggest question was increasing the side set- back from 6 ft. to 7½ ft. and he believes 7½ ft. is too severe MINUTES ~LANNING & ZONING BOARD PAGE ~ IGHT JULY 22, 1975 on a 60 ft. lot. Mr. Bushnell pointed out that they went from 6,000 sq. ft. lot area to 7,500 sq. ft. lot area where there isn't the depth. A 5~ increase in lot size was made. ~. Schmidt referred to the Boynton Hills area. Mrs. Huckle stated that these lots were non-conforming before. ~. Rossi asked if they wanted 60 ft. lots in R-lA? Mr. Schmidt in- formed them that they previously did. Col. Trauger stated that when they put the zoning categories on, they actually did not consider the actual real estate. ~. Rossi agreed that holding 7,500 sq. ft. was a problem. ~. Rossi pointed out that there was no question about it that with the new zoning code, the Board of Adjustment would have a heavy workload. He questioned how they wanted to han- dle all these districts all the way down the line? He recom- mended that the Building Department review the areas and come back with parameters, how many lots occupied, etc. Mr. $chmidt informed him that this was almost impossible. M~. Bushnell suggested that he make the recommendation to the City Manager, as the B~ildi~g Department is short-handed with an increased workload. Mrs. Huckle questione~ what they would accomplish with all this and Mr. Bushnell replied that he didn,t think in some areas they could make a wiser decision. Mrs. Huckle suggested they let the people in residential zones,on developed lots with something built on them, choose whether to use the old or new setbacks and they could take the old setbacks if necessary. Mr. Schmidt agreed this would answer a 'big problem with homes already built. Mrs. Huckle stated she didn't know what would happen to the vacant lots, but possibl~ they would have to appear before the Board of Adjustment. It just doesn't seem like they are going to be able to correct this thing outside of correcting it halfway and hoping it is enough. It looks like it is insurmountable. Mr. Bushnell agreed it would correct non-conformities and problems existing. However, he feels it may make a lot of property useless. If they go through the Board of Adjustment and are not favorably look on, they must wait one year before they can re-apply. He doesn't even think they can make the people cut the weeds on lots which are not buildabie. Mrs. Huckle questioned if it was feasible at all to get an agree- ment in view of all the time spent in reverting back to the old code on all platted properties? She can see what Mr. Bushnell stated is true with unusable properties. Col. Trauger clarified that those which were non-conforming should not be enlarged, but those who owned properties platted now could go ahead under the previous zoning criteria to build. They must have a cut-off date someplace and they will still have people who won't get around to doing it. Mrs. Huckle stated it would be prior to 1962. Col. Trauger asked MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING BOARD PAGE NI~ JULY 22, 1975 about a date in the future and ~. Bushnell agreed there was value to this. Mrs. Huc~kle suggested getting a legal opinion on this. Col. Trauger continued with referring to non-con- formities expanding which should be barred and ceased. Mrs. Castello suggested setting a three year limit. Col. Trauger referred to a solution for the areas where there was a large jump. Mr. Bushnell referred to Laurel Hills and how they needed a second replat now. He explained that they were originally 50 ft. lots and the builders made them 60 ft. lots according to the 1962 zoning and now the requirement is 75 ft. lots and the area is 50% developed. Col. Trauger pointed out if it went for one particular section, they must consider the other sections. Mr. Schmldt asked if there was an answer for this. He asked if the City Council could instruct the Board of Adjustment that when there is a laud-locked lot and the man applies for a variance, not to just refuse but look at the neighborhood and if it is the only one left, let him build on it. M~. Bushnell stated this could create a problem. ~s. Huckle~ added that she was not sure if the City Council could lay out stipulations to the Board of Adjustment. Mr. Schmidt asked if something could be written into the regulations re- ferring to land-locked lots and Mr. Rossi replied that he wasn't concerned with these lots. Mr. Ryder agreed there 'weren't too many land-locked lots and from his experience on the Board of Adjustment, they have granted the variance. Mr. Bushnell questioned why they should impose a $50 fee when it could be solved with the zoning? Mr. Ryder replied that with giving a man the opportunity to do something, he was not going to worry about the $50 fee. M~s. Huckle stated she was worried about the person having had a lot for five years and now gets the money to build and finds he cannot. Mr. Rossi stated he feels they need expert advice. He is sure if they laid out their problem to Bill Boos, they would get guidelines. ~s. Huckle referred to Mr. Boos agreeing he would come down, but added it would take a long time to go through all this. ~. Rossi suggested meeting in a work- shop session with him and get his advice as he k~ows zoning law.. Chairman Melly agreed. The members discussed this further and decided to meet with Mr. Kohl tomorrow to discuss this suggestion further. Mrs. Huckle referred to the time involved to go over this thoroughly with a planner and how the Building Department was being held up in issuing permits. She suggested ma~ng a diversion in all the zones just regarding requirements, setbacks, etc. Chairman Kelly added that if these people have had a piece of property for ten years and have not built on it, it could be confined to the pla~ted and deve- loped and they would have a small minority of people affected. MINUTES PLAI~NING & ZONING BOARD PAGE TEN JULY 22, 1975 Mr. Bushnell suggested reverting to the old zoning parameters enly on existing houses and lots in developed plats. Mr. Ryder agreed that if they did this and treated only hardships with people living there, it would solve many problems. They could go on from there and retain a consultant and consider making changes in the future. They should not hold up any- thing now and destroy construction. This would apply not only to R-1AA, but all others and limit it to developed properties. Mr. Bushnell replied that construction would come to a standstill with stating developed properties. Mrs. Castello suggested setting a time limit. ~. Ryder pointed out they would be suspending the new zoning and going back to the old zoning. Mr. Bushnell advised them that the sewer moratorium may be lifted. Mrs. Huckle remarked that she liked the idea of a planner, but could see a stall. ~. Rossi informed them that he would see ~. Boos tomorrow and see if he was available and was interested. Chairman Kelly suggested meeting with Mr. Kohl first and the members agreed. Mrs. Castello added that they do have a dilemma which must be solved legally. ~. Rossi stated he would like to have i~. Bushnell and ~. Schmidt review this and make suggestions. Mr. Bushnell sug- gested reverting back. He advised them that they would make a list of every zoning district which appears. They will do it by subdivisions and tell the old and new zoning. Mr. Rossi asked if they could solve the problem without changing a district line and changing regulations? Mr. Schmidt re- plied: no and referred to Laurel Hills. The members dis- cussed marking the map to show the changes. Mrs. Huckle asked if there was a problem in R-3 and Mr. Bushnell explained they just had a lack of one. He added that there were also some corrections in the book to be made. They must also do something about a filling station ordinance and others which have fallen out as a result of the new regulations. Mrs. Castello asked if it could be in- corporated by reference and Mr. Bushnell replied: yes. He added that they could ask that the filling station ordinance be re-instated. Chairman Kelly informed him that the Board never discussed this and did not know who took it out. Before adjourning, Chairman Kelly summarized that they have reached a point that they mtu~t discuss some things with ~. Kohl and arrange for some help. Col. Trauger made a motion to adjourn, seconded by ?~s. Castello. Motion carried 6-0 and the meeting was properly adjourned at t1:12 P. M.